Author Topic: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style  (Read 5116 times)

MSchwiebert

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"Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« on: November 10, 2011, 01:08:11 PM »
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/supplier_spotlight/news/Updates-from-Alstom-Bombardier-Duos-Technologies-RMI-and-GrahamWhite--28804

3rd paragraph referencing video camera system installation along a rail corridor to prepare for the upcoming Superbowl.

indyspy

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 01:16:21 PM »
Ahh crap..... I hope they are not putting this crap over near CP-IU.

Though... perhaps with this camera system, they won't need to stop trains moving during the superbowl.

Still, I keep getting the urge to take a month long vacation during Febuary.

Last thing I want is to be hassled because someone can see me with a damn camera while I am watching trains from the north side of the barriers in the parking lot off Alabama and Maryland.
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INprinter

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2011, 03:16:36 PM »
Ahh crap..... I hope they are not putting this crap over near CP-IU.

Though... perhaps with this camera system, they won't need to stop trains moving during the superbowl.

Still, I keep getting the urge to take a month long vacation during Febuary.

Last thing I want is to be hassled because someone can see me with a damn camera while I am watching trains from the north side of the barriers in the parking lot off Alabama and Maryland.

What makes you think they are not watching you already?  ::)

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Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

indyspy

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2011, 03:34:35 PM »
I know, damn Cameras are everywhere. Homeland security even coughed up some dough for one at the INRD SAT yard.
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ATAIndy

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2011, 03:35:38 PM »
$680,000 contract for said security system? I'm sure that will earn its money back. The best security system is the railfan!
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CSX_CO

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2011, 04:44:17 PM »
$680,000 contract for said security system? I'm sure that will earn its money back. The best security system is the railfan!

Yeah, because those cameras will turn off when its dark, cloudy, crappy weather, or have something better to do.  If you all want to set up a 24/7 rail watch down there knock yourselves out.  Not that IU is a 'hot bed' for sabotage, but it saves 1 accident over its life span it has paid for itself monitarily, and in public image.

You'd be surprised how much of CSX's infrastructure is already monitored.  I've seen the monitoring center first hand in Jacksonville.  Pretty impressive.  Cameras pointed at 'key' locations on CSX (bridges, tunnels, etc), plus other items of importance.  Cameras can tell if something the size of a loaf of bread is 'out of place'.  Most of CSX's ROW in Washington DC is constantly monitored with motion detectors.  It senses motion, camera jumps to the location, and the operator needs to make a determination of 'threat' level.  Trespassers, MOW workers, etc.  Yes, big brother is watching you...

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Jim Norton

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 06:51:01 PM »
The true value of these systems will be determined by the amount of vandalism occuring .  Using the average graffiti laden freight train as a barometer for rail security illustrates little if any.  Our luck, these camaras are more "ammo" against the photographer to take the rap for the vandal.


ATAIndy

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 08:24:26 PM »
You'd be surprised how much of CSX's infrastructure is already monitored.  I've seen the monitoring center first hand in Jacksonville.  Pretty impressive.  Cameras pointed at 'key' locations on CSX (bridges, tunnels, etc), plus other items of importance.  Cameras can tell if something the size of a loaf of bread is 'out of place'.  Most of CSX's ROW in Washington DC is constantly monitored with motion detectors.  It senses motion, camera jumps to the location, and the operator needs to make a determination of 'threat' level.  Trespassers, MOW workers, etc.  Yes, big brother is watching you...

So is the main purpose of the surveillance system to monitor the infrastructure for defects, debris, and other problems? Or is it to watch for trespassers and vandals? Those are both two different things and I've never thought about it from a defect and debris standpoint before.
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CSX_CO

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 08:26:50 PM »
So is the main purpose of the surveillance system to monitor the infrastructure for defects, debris, and other problems? Or is it to watch for trespassers and vandals? Those are both two different things and I've never thought about it from a defect and debris standpoint before.

Yeah.  Both.  Vandals placing debris, being on the property, sabotage, etc.  Signal system *should* catch any track problems (broken rails, missing rails, etc).  Camera is to make sure people aren't messing with the track in a critical area.

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ATAIndy

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 11:52:37 PM »
Yeah.  Both.  Vandals placing debris, being on the property, sabotage, etc.  Signal system *should* catch any track problems (broken rails, missing rails, etc).  Camera is to make sure people aren't messing with the track in a critical area.

Practice Safe CSX

I understand the monitoring track problems and vandals. Its just gets frustrating however because the people on the other end of the security camera can't always tell whose is trying to vandalize and who just wants a picture.
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csxdispatcher

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2011, 09:16:19 AM »
The true value of these systems will be determined by the amount of vandalism occuring .  Using the average graffiti laden freight train as a barometer for rail security illustrates little if any.

That would be the wrong barometer.  From every report I have seen, graffiti happens more at the industry, off railroad property.  This seems to hold true when you look at the lack of graffiti on cars that would be at high security industry's, such as coal and ethanol cars.

CSX_CO

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 12:26:55 PM »
I understand the monitoring track problems and vandals. Its just gets frustrating however because the people on the other end of the security camera can't always tell whose is trying to vandalize and who just wants a picture.

If you aren't trespassing, then the camera isn't going to be seeing you now is it?

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indyspy

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2011, 12:39:40 PM »
If you aren't trespassing, then the camera isn't going to be seeing you now is it?

Practice Safe CSX

Thats really debateable with that Parking Lot the way it is at IU

The parking spots are closer to the tracks then the signal relay cabinets for the 11,13,15 and 17 crossovers at CP-IU. Heck there is no fence and the car wheelstop bumpers are on the edge of the damn balast. Last thing I should have to put up with is a visit from a bull because I am parked there and leaning on the hood of my own car thats legaly parked in a parking spot I paid for!

I doubt anyone in the Virginia or Union station garages would be bothered, I doubt the cameras are going to be able to be aimed to point up at them.

I am actually hoping the Cameras will all be WEST of the Station shed.
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CIOR

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2011, 12:42:30 PM »
I'd guess they will be located at spots where people have quick and easy access to the railroad.  Or, the exact spot you just pointed out.  Or at least in the general area to see if something is going on. 

ATAIndy

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2011, 12:58:32 PM »
If you aren't trespassing, then the camera isn't going to be seeing you now is it?

Practice Safe CSX

You can't always get "the shot" by standing on the sidewalk. I understand we have different opinions on this and that's fine.

In the end I guess I just get tired for getting chased away even though my intentions are good and trains are my hobby. I don't always blame the security guards, I realize they don't make the policies, they just enforce them. So my big beef is with the ones that set the rules.
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trainmaster53

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2011, 01:23:09 PM »
I will add this. There is no Laws against taking Photographs in this Country. But there are those out there that seem to try to make it against the Law. They are the ones who need to know what the Laws are, before they try to enforce something that isn't Against the Law. Our Government has made it very clear that it is not against the Law to take Photographs, and They encourage it.

1976

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2011, 10:38:46 PM »
You can't always get "the shot" by standing on the sidewalk. I understand we have different opinions on this and that's fine.

In the end I guess I just get tired for getting chased away even though my intentions are good and trains are my hobby. I don't always blame the security guards, I realize they don't make the policies, they just enforce them. So my big beef is with the ones that set the rules.
I agree, you can't always get the good stuff from public property, but just because you like trains and "mean no harm" doesn't make you entitled to trespass.  Am I guilty of doing it?  Absolutely.  But you can't get defensive and act like you're in the right if you are approached, and it's better to just leave if they tell you to.  You can't come play in my yard (private property) just because you like the type of grass in it, so why should you be able to play on tracks (private property) just because you like the type of machine that runs on it?  Play dumb, maybe, but taking the stance of having the right to do it, no.  Trespassing is illegal and you've got to be willing to take what they give you if you're "caught".  That's not an opinion.

Racecar52

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2011, 09:22:24 AM »
If you aren't trespassing, then the camera isn't going to be seeing you now is it?

False.


I will add this. There is no Laws against taking Photographs in this Country. But there are those out there that seem to try to make it against the Law. They are the ones who need to know what the Laws are, before they try to enforce something that isn't Against the Law. Our Government has made it very clear that it is not against the Law to take Photographs, and They encourage it.

I know, you let someone catch a glimpse of a lens and they act like you're holding a gun to their head.  Some folks forget if its visible to the public eye, its visible to my camera too...
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CSX_CO

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2011, 10:16:43 AM »
False.

Oh, so you know how the system is set up do you?

Like I said, its set up to be triggered if someone steps onto the ROW.  If you aren't on the ROW, i.e. trespassing, then it won't pick you up.  Plain and simple.  Its no different then the experiment they had on the Indiana Turnpike for alerting motorists to deer near the highway.  The deer break the plain, and the lights go off.  Those deer can stand in the ditch, and the system isn't going to go off.  If you are where you should be, it won't go off.  You break the plain, which you shouldn't be doing anyway, and its going to alert someone.  From what I recall, it has the ability to play a message warning the person to step back off the ROW.  Keep pressing that boundry, and I'm sure you'll get a visit from a physical person.

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CIOR

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Re: "Candid Camera" - Indianapolis Style
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2011, 11:58:50 AM »
I believe the UP has that at Moffatt tunnel, if you get so far into the tunnel's restrict area, it senses you and sets off a verbal warning via speakers, if you do not heed that warning, you will see someone very shortly.

(now ya know why I don't like the city!)  But then again I'm not big on walking in trespassing to get a shot.  There are VERY few shots worth me risking jail or fines over.  Sorry.