Author Topic: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON  (Read 2988 times)

Minicooper

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2011, 01:30:59 PM »
I just noticed that the CSX main line is lined up for two east bound trains. This will be fun to watch...

indyspy

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2011, 03:56:33 PM »
Ahh the ole mid day drag race.

Seems when I am out in that area sometimes I will hear the ID dispatcher set up a "drag race" he will put the first EB left main at 245, then the second EB right main at 245. he will then line up 229, 230, and West and East Harrisville EB . Then he will tell the two EBs the first train to ring the circuit up at East Harrisville gets to go in front of the other at Union City or Ansonia. It's allways a fun to listen to on the radio.

Only works when a WB is nowhere in sight. ::)
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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2011, 11:06:12 PM »
Ahh the ole mid day drag race.

Seems when I am out in that area sometimes I will hear the ID dispatcher set up a "drag race" he will put the first EB left main at 245, then the second EB right main at 245. he will then line up 229, 230, and West and East Harrisville EB . Then he will tell the two EBs the first train to ring the circuit up at East Harrisville gets to go in front of the other at Union City or Ansonia. It's allways a fun to listen to on the radio.

Only works when a WB is nowhere in sight. ::)

Unless the EB on #1 is way underpowered for tonnage, they should win that race every time.  Simply because the train on #2 going EB had to go restricted speed until there rear end clears CP 229 (unless the signals going into the 251 territory have changed with the last upgrade, which I doubt).  Lose a lot of momentum for the hill out of Muncie going only 15.  EB #1 only has to go 30 mph until their head end reaches the edge of town, then can let it rip.  Might get interesting with an intermodal on #2 and a freight on #1, but the guy on #1 *should* win everytime unless that first train has a pretty healthy head start.

We ran reverse on Q108 one time.  Freight train stayed ahead of us for the duration because we had to go restricted speed through the signals at Muncie.  We were Q108, so we got around them anyway at Ansonia, but we really gained nothing by going reverse.

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CIOR

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2011, 11:16:40 AM »
Lunar white now...

indyspy

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2011, 12:19:48 PM »
Unless the EB on #1 is way underpowered for tonnage, they should win that race every time.  Simply because the train on #2 going EB had to go restricted speed until there rear end clears CP 229 (unless the signals going into the 251 territory have changed with the last upgrade, which I doubt).  Lose a lot of momentum for the hill out of Muncie going only 15.  EB #1 only has to go 30 mph until their head end reaches the edge of town, then can let it rip.  Might get interesting with an intermodal on #2 and a freight on #1, but the guy on #1 *should* win everytime unless that first train has a pretty healthy head start.

We ran reverse on Q108 one time.  Freight train stayed ahead of us for the duration because we had to go restricted speed through the signals at Muncie.  We were Q108, so we got around them anyway at Ansonia, but we really gained nothing by going reverse.

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Last time they did this, #1 had a bad dragger at Parker City... 30mph. #2 train won. toss in a few speed orders on ether main. It's usually rather entertaining... One time the dispatcher put the left main train over at 250 instead of 245. A rare move.
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CSX_CO

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2011, 01:02:54 PM »
Last time they did this, #1 had a bad dragger at Parker City... 30mph. #2 train won. toss in a few speed orders on ether main. It's usually rather entertaining... One time the dispatcher put the left main train over at 250 instead of 245. A rare move.

So yeah, exactly what I said, normal EB running with current of traffic would have *won* if not restricted by the 30 mph because of the bad dragger.  Trust me, been there, done that, and its normally a waste of effort to run reverse.  Not to mention coming up to 198 back then prepared to stop, and now W. Harrisville being very hard to see on #2 track. Especially running reverse starting at 245, you had to come down there expecting a stop signal, and with a train of any size you are creeping until you see that signal.  As always, around a curve with trees, etc.

Again, you usually gained very little by running reverse between 245 and 198.  *Might* be slightly better now with 261 between 245 and 230, but you still have to go through 229 at restricted speed until you clear the interlocking.  May as well just get in line, and do a passing move between 198 and 189.  Or, at the very least, if running a trailer train, put the freight train up on #2, so at least the vans can run 60mph if they can make track speed on the signals.  Obviously with MOW work, or a train broken down, running reverse would make sense.  To try and pull off a 'passing meet' in that stretch, it is not worth it until they make it 261 the entire way.

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CIND 2254

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2011, 05:19:38 PM »
May be a stupid question, but why was the signal system set up so that when running wrong main you could only get restricting signals?

Christian
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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2011, 07:53:42 PM »
May be a stupid question, but why was the signal system set up so that when running wrong main you could only get restricting signals?

Christian

Entering off the wrong main against current there is no signal system to show you what is ahead.  Thus you get "form" protection and that EC1 protects you, that is it.  NO SIGNAL PROTECTION.

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2011, 11:16:41 PM »
Huh, ok. I figured if they already went that far it would be fully "developed" for either direction on both mains. arent lines like the Chicago Line through Elkhart set up for bi directional running?
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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2011, 11:31:17 PM »
Huh, ok. I figured if they already went that far it would be fully "developed" for either direction on both mains. arent lines like the Chicago Line through Elkhart set up for bi directional running?

Rule 261, yes. 
It makes you wonder what CSX was thinking when they allowed the line from CP229 to Harrisville to remain Rule 251, and have no means to cross over the traffic at CP230.  The old plant at CP230 was set up for crossovers, but in the upgrade they moved the signals down to the diamond thus removing the ability to put it in.  Poor planning? 
It certainly makes no sense, especially not since they took off the locals that ran to Muncie and used the New 3 to get to the NS.


shane_man15

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2011, 11:51:42 PM »
Rule 261, yes. 
It makes you wonder what CSX was thinking when they allowed the line from CP229 to Harrisville to remain Rule 251, and have no means to cross over the traffic at CP230.  The old plant at CP230 was set up for crossovers, but in the upgrade they moved the signals down to the diamond thus removing the ability to put it in.  Poor planning? 
It certainly makes no sense, especially not since they took off the locals that ran to Muncie and used the New 3 to get to the NS.


I think you can still put a crossover between the diamonds and the signals would work out.
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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2011, 09:31:22 AM »
Seems to me that if they went to the trouble of putting in the circuitry that they did in the beginning that it wouldnt have been that difficult to make it fully functional.
Modeling High Hood GP30s on the CERA based in Kokomo circa. 1996-1998.

shane_man15

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2011, 10:06:24 AM »
Seems to me that if they went to the trouble of putting in the circuitry that they did in the beginning that it wouldnt have been that difficult to make it fully functional.
As the gangsters would say, you gotta have that paper boyzzz. LOL.

(I've been stuck at Vincennes for far too long ;) )
Shane Smiley (shane_man15)

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2011, 11:00:53 AM »
There would be the issue of having to move the signals to make the crossovers between the diamonds work.  Those diamonds are each separate CP's and so one would have to be stretched.  I'd be more inclined to believe that CP-Vance would be the place they would put them if anyplace.  There is plenty of room between Lincoln and Ohio to put them in.  Plus the old Vance circuit is still all down there and its obvious they made provisions for something when they put the new circuits in a few years ago.  Conrail went as far as to put bases in there for both tracks!

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2011, 11:02:23 AM »
Seems to me that if they went to the trouble of putting in the circuitry that they did in the beginning that it wouldnt have been that difficult to make it fully functional.

Heck, the line had been already wired for new signals, and perhaps 261 with fiber optic.  I've heard the problem is that if you don't quickly hook up the fiber, and just leave it exposed to the elements, the ends of it can oxidize and it makes it much harder to use it.  That section was 'wired' for new signals all the way back around Day 1 with Conrail.  They just never completed it.  They went back and redid all of the wiring when they upgraded the signals in 2008/2009.  Sort of like the CP 138 crossovers.  Wired, oppositing signals installed, I think they even had the turnouts there for awhile.  Just never installed them.  Bigger fish to fry with the limited cash following the post Conrail Breakup.  It would be nice of them to go back and install those crossovers.  As a stock holder, I'd rather see them do little projects like that to help train velocity, instead of spending buckets on upgrading the LIRC for them.

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shane_man15

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2011, 03:20:43 PM »
As a stock holder, I'd rather see them do little projects like that to help train velocity, instead of spending buckets on upgrading the LIRC for them.
Not to get off topic here, but they wouldn't necessarily need to upgrade the entire line. At least up to Seymour and build wyes that go east and west. Tada!
Shane Smiley (shane_man15)

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2011, 07:21:05 PM »
Not to get off topic here, but they wouldn't necessarily need to upgrade the entire line. At least up to Seymour and build wyes that go east and west. Tada!
You've reopened a can of reopened worms.

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2011, 07:49:05 PM »
Not to get off topic here, but they wouldn't necessarily need to upgrade the entire line. At least up to Seymour and build wyes that go east and west. Tada!

Can-o-worms

Now, this is about NS and CSX at Muncie...LOL, back to that.

indyspy

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Re: ATCS CP230 and CP229 Muncie ON
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2011, 09:57:40 PM »
Here is the kicker now.

Once the code line project moved west of CP-245, they moved into one of Conrail's dumber and more curious moves.

Back in the 1980s, Conrail installed CTC from CP-IU to CP-245. They went all out in some respects. CP-IU (283) to CP-245 probably has more crossovers and controled switches then the rest of the line from CP-245 to CP-54. With crossovers at 273, 260, 250, 245 plus a controlled siding at Anderson. This sort of crossover density is what you see on the ex NYC or ex B&O in Northern Indiana. Most of the crossovers are set for Limited Speed as well. The thing is that it was around the last Code line based 261 CTC installs ever done. And to kick it off it was totally relay based, not solid state. So now CSXT has to replace 261 CTC that while relatively young, was extremely outdated the day it way installed.

Well at least they won't have to replace 275 and 273 now..... a lightning strike blasted the entire interlockers at those interlockings a few years ago.,
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