Honda Plant News Archive

[Ken(Guest)]

Yes, it's me Spitz. I agree, what I have been hearing is that it will upgrade to 40-45 standards. They will probably get some of the money to upgrade from the state, Indiana never has seemed to be stingy with the money for rail operations. I just have a feeling they will need a siding in their somewhere. I know if I was still dispatching I sure wouldn't want to have to hold a crew at Valley to wait for a train to come down from Greensburg. I am not sure where, the only reason I thought of Sunman was that it already has a siding, and I think if I remember correctly, you still have several thousand feet from the end of the present siding to the next road crossing so you could get about a 4500-5500 thousand foot siding without blocking a crossing, longer if you don't care about the crossing. How do you think this will impact the other businesses in the Greensburg area, increase or decrease in traffic?

[Ken(Guest)]

Oh, by the way, if a certain someone would get his cars out of Sunman, you could use it for something else!! Didn't there use to be a stub track at Sunman, or am I crazy? Also, do you think this might allow the St. Paul quarry to start up some business now?

[Jim(Guest)]

Once upon a time, yes there was a stub up there that served Sunman Hardwood, plus a stub end on the north side that served a small grain mill.  Thats all gone - double ended siding is all that remains (unless you count the sticks of rail we "salvaged" off the old mill siding to build wheel racks to store wheel sets on).  You can squeeze 60 standard firty foot cars between the clearance point right now.  I try to never have more than 40 up there casue it gets too congested to do anything.  After they switch me this weekend (assuming they do - I won't know if they do until later - I'm stuck at the in-laws in Indy), I should only have 24 left there, plus my 86' flat car load of wheel sets.

And get my cars out of Sunman - why would I do that.  If one of my many fleet management responsibilities remains inspecting and evaluating some of our olders cars, well then I'm going to do it somewhere convienent if at all possible )  Besides, they may good money on our cars - heck, when "Uncle Don" isn't shipping, I'm the biggest customer on the west end (sad isn't it).

And if you where still dispatching, nothing would get over the road!!!    

[Cheviot_Hill]

Ok, sinse both of you (Jim/Ken) are former or present employees, it sounds like. When do you guys think that the rebuilding will start?

[Frmr IO Dispatcher]

And if you where still dispatching, nothing would get over the road!!!    

Yea and if you were in charge of customer service, we wouldn't even have any cars to move because you misplaced them or one of your clerks outbounded them on a track in Springfield to CN!!

Hey, do you know how often they are running up the hill now? I would like to get out and get some pictures before the line gets some work, sort of a before after kinda thing..

[Frmr IO Dispatcher]

Ok, sinse both of you (Jim/Ken) are former or present employees, it sounds like. When do you guys think that the rebuilding will start?

You can't be sure with that, I would guess it would depend on if the state is going to be providing some of the funding. I could see them start in the spring as it is a little late to bid out and start a major rebuilding project this late in the year. What do you think Jim?

[scraphauler]

Well Mr Former I&O Dispatchder, since you registered, I registered.  And by the way slick, I never lost cars at Springfield - I onlyn temporarily misplaced them  

I already grabed a few pick yesterday as my"before" shots.  Operating plan as of today is Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.   Usually the Tuesday run made with moring crew (8AM on duty?).  They generally make a round trip (or close to it).  Thursday is usually later (cause they have to go dog catch first) and often turns into an evening and overnight trip.  Saturday/Weekend is a crap shoot.  This week, they went west past MP 47 (my house) around midnight Saturday night/Sunday moring, went straight to Shelbyville, interchanged with ISRR/CSXT, and made it back to Greensburg.  Train was tied down most of yesterday on main at Greensburg - crew back on duty sometime late yesterday afternoon, switched Greesnburg customers, and was eastbound past MP 47 around 10 last night (still having to switch Sunman for yours truely - generally switched both directions on the weekened job)

Back to Honda.  I imagine you'll see work as soon as I&O can get contractors and material lined up.   The main line relocation is supposed to take place yet this summer/fall.  If they use same contractor for evrything (which would make sence), I imagine once relocated main is cut in, they would just continue working weather permiting.  As info, suryeing is in full swing (looks like one could make a small fortune off the orange paint and flag consesion alone!).  I drove past there yesterday (a Sunday on a holiday weekend) and there was a construction and engineering company from Plainfield IN unloading an all terain drilling rig on the west side of what is now the Honda Property.

[Frmr IO Dispatcher]

I will have to try and get out maybe Thursday or next Tuesday to chase them up the hill. You know how hard it is to get out of work, oh wait that's right I am a teacher I don't have to work in the summer!! Hey, let me know if you see them doing major work out on the line, I wouldn't mind getting some pictures of that as well.

[highliner(Guest)]

I'm not sure who wondered about engines coming from anna (oh) by rail, but please bear in mind that tmmk (g-town,ky) receives engines in huge quantity from buffalo (wv), and it all comes by truck. rail is much too time-intensive for such a time-critical item as this.I have been involved professionally with rail and road transportation since 1988,and I believe the coil-scrap-resin-racks conjectures to be the most likely,with regard to traffic "created" by this venture. It's been 2 years since I railfanned this line,and I am exuberant to see it presented with a brighter future

[christian hostetler(Guest)]

Hey Frmr. I&O dispatcher, How do you get up to sunman grade? Ive been through sunman a few times and i was very interested about what i had heard. Thanks for all your help.

                  Christian H.

[Frmr IO Dispatcher]

Hey Frmr. I&O dispatcher, How do you get up to sunman grade? Ive been through sunman a few times and i was very interested about what i had heard. Thanks for all your help.

                  Christian H.

Christian, not sure what you mean by Sunman grade, if you are talking about the grade between Valley Jct./Lawrenceburg Jct. and Sunman, it is very difficult to get to. There is a gravel/dirt road called Bonnel Road that comes out of Guilford down on Indiana 1. It parallels the tracks up toward Weisburg as the follow Tanners creek up the hill. It requires a 4 wheel drive vehicle as it crosses the creek and then runs in the creek for a short distance on its parrallel run. Even following this road the access to the tracks is limited to a couple of places. This is an extremely remote stretch of track.

Have I got that pretty close scraphauler or am I missing some place that gives you better access to the tracks.

[Cheviot_Hill]

That is the only road in that area. You do need a 4 wheel drive vehicle. A buddy and me tried to get up there and got stuck. We had an old pickup but lacked 4 wheel drive.

[scraphauler]

Frmr IO Dispatcher and Cheviot Hill hit it right on the head - it's remote.  Van Wedding road crosses line where the Jackson Block Station sign used to be in Conrail days.  Weisburg road cross line at Weisburg.  There another road that goes underneath track down from Weisburg, but I can't recall it's name - this is the road that Bonnell "Road" connects to at it's west end.  Other than that, there is another county road (can't remeber name) from Kennedy to Guilford that is usually passable that you can catch glimpses of the line.  But between Kenedy and Weisburg, it's is rugged and remote.

As info, I think Bonnell ends at the little wye just after you go under that tracks in the box culvert tunnel (immediatly after fording creek).  From there west I think is just some sort of trail.   Last time I was down there, road zig-zaged up RR embanment, crossed tracks, zig-zagged down other side, got on the old original right of way until you got to where a bridge used to be, down the embankment, throught the creek, back up the emanakment, under the active track through the creek again, up onto a county "road" right of way until you got to the wash out, down into the creek around the washout, then back out to civilization.  

4 wheel drive ONLY - plus you probalby shouldn't be alone and have some way of getting yourself out of a jam (shovels, winch, etc).  Also, if you go, make sure it hasn't rained for a while and no rain is forcast - those creeks you will be in will come up FAST and get might nasty. About only people out there are 4 wheelers playing, a few "hard core" locals, and some unsavory types tending to various, how whall we say, agricultural enterprises.   And if you get stuck, don't count on your cell phone - heck, they have to pipe sunshine into some of those areas!

Last I was down there (few years ago now), creek bed was still littered with the remains of freight cars from multiple PC and NYC derailments.  In fact, there's one area where several cars where shoved agains the creek bank to form a retaining wall for the right of way.

[scraphauler]

I've recieved official notification (as I am a CIND Customer) that sometime on or around 9/1/06, the CIND west of Greensburg will be taken out of service (CLOSED) for an significant amount of time (we're talking SEVERAL MONTHS) due to construction activity for Honda.  All traffic moving to/from CSXT Beech Grove (Shelbyville) will be rerouted over Cincinnati interchange.  Bridge traffic between IORY and ISRR will be rerouted via a haulage agreement with either CSXT or NS.  No official word on how Kolkmeier Grain at St Paul IN will be served during the shut down.  Greensburg and Sunman customers will still be served by a Valley Jct based local during the shutdown. End of official word.

Now for the unofficial stuff I've pieced together from numerous sources.  The construction management comany that is building the plant for Honda has 24 months from ground breaking to turn a complete, fully functional, auto assembly plant over to Honda, bounsus if they deliver early.  Current goal is to have plant turned over in 18 months. Since part of the assembly building and one of the six storm water retention ponds will occupy the current CIND right of way, there is no room in the schedule to work around the tracks while the new mainline is constructed.  So once heavy earthwork starts, the tracks have to be out of there.  My understanding is basically you are looking at removing the main from somewhere around Vandalia road on the east side of the project to the town of Adams on the west side of the project.  Line will be relocated to the southern edge of the Honda property (roughly adjacent to County Road 240 NW).  Contractor who does earth work at plant sight will also grade in the new mainline, as well as the new yard and various support tracks.  Once all grading on mainline and yard is nearing completion, a different contractor will come in and start constructing the new main line, the new yard, the tracks into the new vehicle loading area, and other yet to be determined sidings. Officially, the line will be closed for up to one year.  Unofficially, hope is to have mainline service restored by late winter or early spring.

Also, current RUMORS from various sources inside and outside the RR suggest that the heaviest work of main line rehabilition between Cincinnati and Greensburg may take place during the time the line is shut down west of Greensburg.  Likely plan would be that Sunman and Greensburg would recieve a switch once or twice a week as needed, so that m.o.w. could work without clearing up the other 5 or 6 days per week.

No word yet on any inbound or outbound traffic other than finshed autos at this time (still, you are loking at 8000-10000 car loads of autos a year).  However, I have heard a local rumor that Michelin is looking to build a distribution center at one of the three other 1200 plus acre sights Honda purchased options on along the CIND.  The sight just west of New Point IN has seen some surveying recently - not sure if it's Honda or Honda Supplier related, or just an unrelated coinsidence.

In retrospect, I guess it should have been evident that Honda was going to Indiana along CIND.  Honda purchased options on several thousand acres in four sights along CIND, paying property owners an option of $6000 or more per parcel.  According to press reports out of Van Wert, Honda only had an option on one 1600 some odd acre sight up there, and only paid $1000 per parcel.  

[Frmr IO Dispatcher]

Hey Scrappy Doo   Have you seen them move any materials or such into the area? I imagine that they could service Kolkmeier from Shelbyville if CSX would allow them to get cars and exchange cars for St. Paul in Shelbyville.

As for the track layout at Greensburg, it will be interesting to see what type of layout and support tracks they put in up there, such as a Greensburg yard, and sidings.

Also, I was thinking of this today, where will the racks for Honda come from? I know that the majority of GM racks that the I & O haul come from the south via CSX Corbin. I was wondering where Honda racks will come from and how much traffic will be added to other I & O lines in the area? What do you think Scrappy???  

[scraphauler]

Quick update first - just recieved word that 9/15/06 is the official cut off date west of Greensburg.  So it sounds like Thrusday 9/14/06 will be the last train between Greensburg and St Paul.    

As for the racks, I think Honda may end up supplying their own - outside the normal TTX pool!  You may recall, last fall, Greenbrier announced that Honda had placed a $100,000,000 order with them for new Auto-Max autoracks for delivery (if I recall correctly) begining in late 2007.   I have no idea what an Auto-Max costs, but I can go build a new 66 foot gon for $80,000, so if an Auto-Max cost $200,000, that a 500 car order.  And those are those articulated cars, so that's roughly the same as 1000 standard auto racks.  (Also, if they use articulated cars, you are looking at 4000-5000 "car loads" - still 8000-10000 "platforms")  If they participate in the TTX pool, then TTX supplied cars would most likely come over Cincinnati unless things have chaged drastically since the "old days" when I had to regularly sit in on the daily TTX rack train confrenece call.  What I anticipate happeneing is daily production will move as a unit to Cincinnati, with NS and CSXT cars handed off to them and balance forward onto Chicago for western carriers.   That's just based off my experience.

As for your question about material or such - I haven't seen anything yet (other than a core drilling machine with the survey crew) - just loast of oarange paint and flags.

[Cheviot_Hill]

I've read on the Greensburg newspaper web site that Honda is planning on having an output now of 300,000 vehicles a year, not the 200,000 that was mentioned earlier. What will this do to the amount of traffic?
Scraphauler, thanks for the info. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[indrr]

Does anybody have the site plan for the plant that they could post?  I'd like to see how the line is going to be reconfigured out and around the plant.  

[scraphauler]

I have not seen anything that I can scan in, but here's an overhead shot of land in question - cover 80% of Honda's sight.  The red lines are the approximate boundaries for Honda.  The roads highlited in bright green are being vacated by Decatur County for Honda.  The blue X is roughly where the new I-74/US 421 interchange goes, and the hand drawn blue line is roughly how mainline will be relocated.

[scraphauler]

Drove around Greensburg yesterday - nothing new to report on Honda sight other than surveyors continue working (and where working yesterday Saturday 7/22) on both the Honda property and on US 421 & I-74 for the state highway department.   The amount of paint on the roadways and flags in the fields continues to multiply.

Only development I saw is that there is a track crew (looked like Atlas's equipment) working EAST of Greensburg near MP 61.  There is a flat bed trailer (kind you tow behind a dump truck) loaded with new ties setting on the approach to a private crossing, some new ties along right of way, and a rubber tired backhoe with tie handling attachment setting along right of way.   While I would immagine it's just a crew tackling a troublesoome slow order to get line through until major works start, it is a precursor of things to come.  

Also, Heard in a meeting this week that Honda has specific standards that they want the mianline rehabilitated and maintained to.    Sounds like it could end up being a SIGNIFICANT rehab job for the old CIND.