Author Topic: Notre Dame Line Purchase?  (Read 16467 times)

dinwitty

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #140 on: November 07, 2012, 03:11:02 AM »
The tracks have been pulled, it apparently been abandoned.
You will have to show me direct coal costs via rail vs truck, the NS delivers coal south of South Bend and it is picked up by truck to Notre Dame. I always thought this method was more expensive. The problem is the the abandonement of the railroad north thru niles to Benton Harbor as that was the direct connection getting coal in. Bob Harris (The CLS&SB railroad) would have made new connections and possibly bring coal in via the South Shore who does a lot of coal moves on their line.
The problem with the whole arena of trying to get the railroad activated has been political issues. That is Bob Harris's main complaint. The South Shore cars he hoped to use to deliver ND fans to football games have been donated to a museum in Wisconsin, he still owns other South Shore cars, but apparently the plan to get rail coal back via Bob Harris's actions is done. Bob has other Railroad cars under restoration and he may be looking for museum space somewhere to do something and do something with the equipment he owns that is practical for it. (I.E. like help get coal to Notre Dame). He planned to electrify the line and bring the coal in using an electric locomotive.
Looks like it will never happen now.

BTW Notre Dame has a locomotive and a car or two or so now trapped and nowhere to go.


ambrose

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #141 on: November 08, 2012, 02:45:12 PM »
The city was successful in their second attempt at Adverse Abandonment earlier this year.Politics was a large part of it.NS sided with South Bend and did not protest as they still get the long haul on the coal and that is all they were really interested in.They did not abandon it themselves because then a potential buyer could have forced a sale.Its just funny how all of a sudden moving coal by rail to Notre Dame was such a terrible prospect but was ok for decades.Thankfully many cities and communities still look favorablly on preserving rail service and they and their industries thrive because of it.

dinwitty

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #142 on: November 08, 2012, 08:51:04 PM »
I have an oddball thought now because of this circumstance as the line -technically- abandoned, the right of way still exists, if some entrenepeur comes along and have an interest it might be bought at a really cheap price.
The issue with the line is Notre Dame is essentially the only potential industry, the other surroundings are more rural non-industrial. 30-40 etc years ago the rail line is a non issue because you had streetcars etc in your culture, today's auto culture the image is all different, people just don't see railroads in a positive manner except as something that blocks their way when a train goes by (and run around gates etc). Notre Dame lost an opportunity, because this rail line gets abandoned I can only think of some domino effect in some nearby areas.
I only hope the trend of some new Light Rail/Street cars returning that maybe South Bend wakes up to it as well and see what they lost.

TomB

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #143 on: November 09, 2012, 08:38:57 PM »
I sense ND did not support the reactivation of rail service as a bargaining chip with the City of South Bend over future concessions like vacating city streets in and around campus and other benefits.

If Bob Harris is still around then at some point he might want to jump back in since a railroad is required to sell a ROW for salvage value to any qualified buyer who would continue rail service ahead of other buyers.

Interesting that NS is retaining title to the land vs. either abandoning it or selling it piecemeal.

scraphauler

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #144 on: November 09, 2012, 09:46:24 PM »
If Bob Harris is still around then at some point he might want to jump back in since a railroad is required to sell a ROW for salvage value to any qualified buyer who would continue rail service ahead of other buyers.

That would have been the case in the abandonment procedure if NS would have filed to abandon.  Which is precisely why NS DID NOT file to abandon, but rather had the City file an adverse abandonment.  Sneaky (and perfectly legal) way to be relieved of common carrier obligation and be able to sell property for development "for the common good" without a 3rd party filing an OFA and screwing up the works.  If you watch the real estate transfers, you will probably see the right or way quietly be sold to the City or ND in the next few months.   

NS did the same thing in Cincinnati back in the 90's, except in that case it was LIVE in use track.  They owned a small section of track used by CIND on the Cincinnati Riverfront that Hamilton County wanted for construction of Paul Brown Stadium.   If they file to abandon the track, the CIND will file an OFA in order to purchase and that could have interfered with the Bengals Stadium.  So NS suggest Hamilton County file and adverse abandonment, which they did.   The County argued that the customers CIND served on the line where closing and being torn down for stadium construction and that CIND did not need it to access the IORY Oasis line for a 2nd way to Conrail Sharonville as they already had access to Conrail by operating via Queesgate.  The STB agreed, canceled CIND's trackage rights, and abandoned the line.  NS turns around and sells property to the county at a handsome price, and wham bam thank you ma'am, an active railline is gone forever in the name of civic development. 

jallenp7

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #145 on: November 15, 2012, 07:12:21 AM »
I was one the last to operate a train accross the line.  I think they could have relocated the Line on the south side of the stadium, 

We did "run" into one guy who pulled out in front of us leaving on of the local bars under the C&O bridge.

May not be politically correct to quote here but scrappy gave me a quote from the CIND accident report that was so telling, maybe he will quote it?

The guy we ran into was a big part in the push to stop the stadium construction and against the tax levy, although his name escapes me now.

Somewhere, somebody has a picutre of us with IORY 83 making a p/u from the CIND at a siding about were the stadium is now.
Former I&O, NECR, CSO guy.

scraphauler

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #146 on: November 15, 2012, 12:41:17 PM »
We did "run" into one guy who pulled out in front of us leaving on of the local bars under the C&O bridge.

May not be politically correct to quote here but scrappy gave me a quote from the CIND accident report that was so telling, maybe he will quote it?


I'll clean up what my 3rd trick dispatcher wrote in the accident report - "IORY 83 struck vehicle exiting driveway of (insert derogatory term for homosexual or old 50's term for cigarette here) bar".    Had to make him rewrite that  ;)

big_amish

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #147 on: September 25, 2013, 04:05:34 AM »
In the past week or 2 the remaining coal hopper car has been pushed across the former Douglas rd crossing for likely dismantling. Soon after the former Douglas Rd crossing was ripped up and repaved. The switcher and the crane remain south of Douglas near the Power Plant. I was told the Crane, hopper and switcher were offered to the NYC museum in Elkhart, but they declined because they did not have the resources to move them via flatbed truck to museum property.

Rick

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #148 on: September 25, 2013, 10:39:52 AM »
In the past week or 2 the remaining coal hopper car has been pushed across the former Douglas rd crossing for likely dismantling. Soon after the former Douglas Rd crossing was ripped up and repaved. The switcher and the crane remain south of Douglas near the Power Plant. I was told the Crane, hopper and switcher were offered to the NYC museum in Elkhart, but they declined because they did not have the resources to move them via flatbed truck to museum property.

I can't believe they can't get the city to take a flatbed over there and get the switcher at least.  They really don't need another crane.  I assume they could use the ND crane to hoist it and the NYC crane to take it off at the museum.

monon_rr

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #149 on: September 29, 2013, 09:07:06 AM »
Got some likely final shots yesterday when I was up for the game.

WabashGuy

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #150 on: October 10, 2013, 02:53:52 AM »
I got a few shots last fall. Going to be there next Sat for the USC game (GO IRISH)....looks like I'll be taking a walk up there to see what is left. :( Always held out hope that something would be done with the line....always thought it was a neat little branch and looked nice along Douglas.

And I agree, the NYC museum doesn't need another crane! But that switcher would sure look good there.
Brad
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Rick

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #151 on: October 10, 2013, 07:22:08 AM »
I got a few shots last fall. Going to be there next Sat for the USC game (GO IRISH)....looks like I'll be taking a walk up there to see what is left. :( Always held out hope that something would be done with the line....always thought it was a neat little branch and looked nice along Douglas.

And I agree, the NYC museum doesn't need another crane! But that switcher would sure look good there.

Yes it would.  It would also keep them from using the 250ton crane to move cars around with.  That little switcher would be much easier to use.  Of course with our mayor, I doubt anything will be done to help.

big_amish

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #152 on: November 19, 2013, 08:08:59 AM »
From NCIR Yahoo group (FRED BOYER):

This morning (Mon Nov 18) a group from Hoosier Valley Museum met at Notre Dame to load the university's 30's-40's era double end Porter. We got it loaded in a VERY long truck. Two sets of 12 wheel bogies on each end. The truck will be leaving Notre Dame about 9:00 Tuesday morning, probably arriving at North Judson about noontime.

Notre Dame has donated the unit to HVRM with the stipulation that it will be restored and used on our tourist trains. We are delighted to comply with this. With the lack of people to work on it it will probably be a two year effort.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 11:00:00 AM by big_amish »

Rick

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #153 on: November 19, 2013, 10:44:19 AM »
From NCIR Yahoo group (FRED BOYER):

This morning (Mon Nov 18) a group from Hoosier Valley Museum met at Notre Dame to load the university's 30's-40's era double end Porter. We got it loaded in a VERY long truck. Two sets of 12 wheel bogies on each end. The truck will be leaving Notre Dame about 9:00 Tuesday morning, probably arriving at North Judson about noontime.

Notre Dame has donated the unit to HVRM with the stipulation that it will be restored and used on our tourist trains. We are delighted to comply with this. With the lack of people to work on it it will probably be a two year effort.

/quote]

Glad to hear it is being donated.  Too bad it couldn't stay closer to home.

monon_rr

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #154 on: November 19, 2013, 10:39:06 PM »
Glad to hear it will be saved.

Cory

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Re: Notre Dame Line Purchase?
« Reply #155 on: November 21, 2013, 09:37:34 AM »
Thanks to all the volunteers that helped with the move,engine headed to the barn.
Cory