Author Topic: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W  (Read 15477 times)

NWChicagoRailfan

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2009, 10:34:10 AM »
There's no reason they would.  For it to be useful they'd have to acquire the entire ROW, most of which has returned to its' owners (i.e. farmers) and been reused.  Even then, after purchasing the ROW, and then paying the cost to relay the 350 or so miles from Chicago to Galion, they'd still not have anything useful.  They'd then have to purchase the rest of the EL to Buffalo for it to get to a big city.  It's routes to Cincinnati and Cleveland are quite poor for anything coming from the West.

In short, the expenses involved would not be worth a connection to Buffalo, or even New York City if they went further.  It's much easier and cheaper to just get trackage rights or even just shift the train to one of the eastern roads.

Bob Durnell

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2009, 12:50:31 PM »
Wouldn't that picture have to be taken a little later? The tracks or at least one track would have been intact until operations ended in what, 1980?


I think I took this in the winter of 77-78. The scene is looking east on the EL and the track in the fore ground is the PRR panhandle at Kouts. Just prior to arriving at Kouts I got a picture of the eastbound ULG headed for Cincinnati on the PRR with an all L&N lashup at La Crosse. Is there any signs left that there were railroads in the Kouts area?

JasonA

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2009, 05:08:13 PM »
That picture would be 81 to 82ish.  I was in third grade at the time and we used to walk past this area every Wednesday.  I remember them single tracking the PRR and the Erie when it was out of service.  I also remember them taking out the 2nd PRR track in 83 or 84.  It's funny, I never saw any equipment remove any part of the Erie, but I remember them removing both of the PRR tracks.  Road the bus past the Erie every day too.  I think I have a few pics of the PRR being taken up somewhere.

Mike K

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2009, 08:35:00 AM »
Im from NW IN (living in Marion In right now)  The only time I remember seeing equipment on the EL was in Crown Point where it crosses In RT 55.  My parents were shopping for a car (which they eventually bought) from a place just south of the tracks.  It was quite the surprise to see F units (or were they E's?) parked just east of the highway.  One of the best paint schemes for locos.

You can tell where the RRs were in Kouts.  A station still stands.  I think it is an ice cream place.  The EL tracks in that picture look disconnected....so sad.

OS_IJ

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2009, 10:01:26 AM »
If anyone knows for sure when these diamonds were taken out at Kouts would sure help my fading memory. I guess the signals in the distance said it all. The only thing left there was that single pennsy track, which was still in use then. Did the Erie Western run all the way up to Chicago once they got their operations going. My only contact with the Erie Western was getting some pictures of a couple of their RS's and those Long Island Alcos at Huntington IN.

Bob Durnell

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2009, 09:11:33 PM »
According to the information I have, The Chicago and Indiana died in January 1980, and the Panhandle was abandoned in 1982, so my guess is that picture was taken at some time between those two dates.

storrs19

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2009, 11:40:19 AM »
I know this is an old thread but I was thumbing through some Conrail G.O.'s and something puzzled me.  I have a Western Region G.O. #102 dated 11/15/1976 which states that the EL crossing at Kouts is permanently closed and all interlocking signals and appliances are removed from service.  I wonder how this could be since the Erie Western was running until 1979 or so wasn't it?  Did they re-install the diamonds at Kouts?  This seems very unusual to me.  Anyway, I will attach a photo of Kouts from better times.  This was taken from the rear of an eastbound (southbound) passenger train on the PRR so we are looking west back toward Chicago.  Taken in 1971 I think.
Following the remains of the B&O in Southern Indiana

Bob Durnell

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2009, 01:23:03 PM »
The only thing I can think of is that this was after Conrail stopped providing local service on the EL, (I know they did that for a little while, I don't know how long) OR they were serving it with locals from either end. Does anybody know if there was a break between Conrail local service and the start of Erie Western operations? If there was, Conrail may well have assumed that this line was dead and would never see another through train again, and pulled the diamond. If so, they would have had to put it back in when ERES started up. It HAS been known to happen. Just ask CSX about Defiance OH!

CIOR

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2009, 04:52:50 PM »
From what I can gather, September was the startup of month of the Erie Western and that would have been in 77'.
Then I stumbled upon a site with employee pictures, he states that the first train on the Erie Western was Erie Western Train #35 1st run Huntington, IN 9/26/77

Here is the website with images.
http://www.rrslideshow.com/jdemike/v/jdemike/eres/

Bob Durnell

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2009, 10:02:56 PM »
That makes sense. My guess is Conrail pulled the diamond and provided service with locals on both ends, and then had to put the diamond back in. As a side point, does anybody know why the Pennsy tracks are so widely seperated in the above photo?

storrs19

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2009, 11:01:08 AM »
Bob:
I remember asking someone about the tracks being so wide apart and I think it may have had to due with drainage but it has been so long I may be wrong on that.  I'm sure there was a logical reason for it.

Matt:
Thanks for the link to those photos.  Very interesting reading about the guy who became the dispatcher of the Erie & Western after a five minute briefing, LOL!  Those were the days.


Chad
Following the remains of the B&O in Southern Indiana

CIND 2254

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2009, 11:17:55 AM »
I had heard the the EL split their tracks whenever they could to keep a derailment from shutting down both mains, i suppose this could be true for the pennsy too?
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Modeling High Hood GP30s on the CERA based in Kokomo circa. 1996-1998.

storrs19

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2009, 11:28:16 AM »
Well the Erie was originally a wide gauge railroad so when they narrowed to the standard gauge width this left quite a bit of room between the tracks, which was great for high-wide movements.  They also had some nice grade separations on the double track main line in Indiana, most notably near Disko but in some other places as well. 
Following the remains of the B&O in Southern Indiana

hibbard

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2009, 07:49:58 AM »
I think the Erie had given up on the wide guage by the time the line west of Marion was built and it was built to standard guage.

Bob

Howard Pletcher

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2009, 09:38:23 PM »
I think the Erie had given up on the wide guage by the time the line west of Marion was built and it was built to standard guage.

Bob

Correct.  The only wide gauge on the Erie was in New York.

bjrabbit

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2009, 09:30:17 PM »
The PRR mainline was separated at Kouts because the junction was originally the east end of two sidings (westward and eastward) that stretched from the junction with the Erie west to Aynes, a remote interlocking that was controlled from Kouts Tower. The sidings existed between the two main tracks. Between Kouts and Aynes, there was a coaling station at the Sandy Hook ditch. Trains accessing the coaling station were routed onto the sidings. (For locals, the coaling tower was about 1/4 mile west of where the rr crossed Baums Bridge Road)

To go back even further in time, the original coaling station was located between the tower and the station. However, it was moved sometime in the 1910's to Sandy Hook and Sandy Hook remained in service until 1957.


Bob:
I remember asking someone about the tracks being so wide apart and I think it may have had to due with drainage but it has been so long I may be wrong on that.  I'm sure there was a logical reason for it.

Matt:
Thanks for the link to those photos.  Very interesting reading about the guy who became the dispatcher of the Erie & Western after a five minute briefing, LOL!  Those were the days.


Chad


cbalducc

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2009, 09:38:44 PM »
It's a wonder the EL lasted as long as it did, with all of that double-track running through miles of Indiana and Ohio farmland and having mainly ag customers in those states.  It looked like it was built to haul 100 trains a day!  It should have been single-tracked in the 1960s.  And with the railroad being financially strapped, where did it get the money to buy those new SD45s?

God bless,

Chris Balducci
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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2009, 11:52:22 PM »
Chris, I think that a lot of that money came from its partnership with the Norfolk and Western. I believe the name of that holding company was DERECO, others can say for sure.

             Christian
Modeling High Hood GP30s on the CERA based in Kokomo circa. 1996-1998.

LJ

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2009, 08:24:07 PM »
Another reason the ERIE r-o-w was so wide was so that they could handle the high and wide shipments between the east coast and the midwest. I'm more intrigued by the use of trestles and fill to get across the eastern most part of the Hoosier State.

rrnut282

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Re: Erie Lackawanna R-O-W
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2009, 10:34:42 AM »
I'm aware of the long fills across Wells county (from just West of Kingsland to Markle, 6 miles, for example) ,but other than creeks, where were the tresles of which you speak?
rrnut2-8-2
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