CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville

[KM9X]

That one looks like it could be new BNSF. strange to see them here.
Oh, we can start a rumor they found a vein of coal in Decatur county and a new coal mine is going in near Honda!
cars sales down, coal is up!

[scraphauler]

New coal mine already under construction beneath Adams, and BNSF buying CIND for the coal options, Surprised you hadn't heard that yet

The real surprise (to me) is that I was able to move a 51 car block of BNSF coal equipment across the CF&E from Chicago to Lima, down the IORY to Cincinnati, and up to Greensburg with no one really taking any notice.  Would have thought a "coal train" on RailAmerica would have peaked someone's interest.

As info, these are all air operated rapid discharge cars - a hodgepodge mix of builders, build dates, etc. (some are pretty new).  Lease expired with BNSF on them.  51 parked on main west of Adams, 10 more parked in siding at Sunman and 8 stragglers still out west drifting this way.  Now also have a good sized slug of single tub rotary dump coal gons that should start drifting in in small batches off CSXT Cincinnati over next 6-8 weeks.   Some of these could end up parked with the BNSF cars west of Adams as well. 

[CIOR]

Why doesn't CIND try and buy the CSX portion of the line to Indy? Even if CSX fights it, The STB/courts would order CSX to either fix the line. Then maybe with some federal money, the line will get fixed up even better and Amtrak could run the Cardinal to Cinncinnati this way.

1st, the federal government won't just make CSX restore the line because RA wants it that way.  A fair amount of traffic would have to move over the line (enough that the fed's could insure CSX could afford to keep the line up and open).
2nd, Amtrak pulled from the line for many reasons.  The biggest being that it has better access into Cincinnati via the current B&O routing then it had via the Wood Street connection and with current routes available via the NYC, you would have probably a 30+ minute delay in jacking the Cardinal around in the terminal alone!  Also, Amtrak is happy with the traffic they get on the current route from what I was told 10 years ago.

[scraphauler]

Biggest problem with a passenger train (or any train) coming off CIND (or the CSXT Indiana Sub for that matter) is that the only way it can go is north out of Queensgate without somehow turning the train or running around it.  For Amtrak Cardinal to use CIND, they would have to turn the train on the Southern Loop track - under the BEST of circumstances, going from CP Oklahoma, across CSXT to Southern Loop, around loop and out onto NS Ohio River Bridge, then shoving back into Gest St can take 15-20 minutes.  Then you would have to get from Gest St to Union Terminal - I think CIOR's 30 minute estimate is very optimistic.  An other option would be for the Cardinal to run with 2 units, back to back, and run around train in Queensget somewhere.  But then the you would have an occupied train sitting for probably at least 10-15 minutes in the middle of the yard somewhere with no head end power.  Or, Amtrak could keep an engine in Cincinnati and simply trade out power - the new engine ties onto rear of inbound train, and the inbound engine is cut off.   Really don't think Amtrak would be too keen on any of those ideas.  Best hope for passenger service on CIND is the Midwest High Spreed Rail program - maybe Amtrak can take a baby step and extend the Hoosier State to Cincinnati via CIND to get the ball rolling.

Back to the subject of the thread - if CSXT where to repair their mile and a half or so of track and reopen the interchange today, traffic would likely start moving that way tomorrow.  CIND probably could even get the STB or courts involved if necessary to force CSXT to repair the line in order for them to exercise their trackage right.   Problem is, there really isn't enough traffic to move that way for CIND to risk their relationship with CSXT by forcing the issue.  Now if something developed that was a big enough piece of business that had to go that way, I'm sure they would force it open.  Personally, I think best hope for restored through freight service would be CSXT deciding that going through the motions to serve a handful of customers in Shelbyville is not longer worth it and they sell it to CIND.

[Jeffrey J Mitchell]

I don't remember the date of the paper here in Shelbyville this appeared but I kept the article. Sorry for the quality. You might have to save the .jpg then magnify it to read it.

[AmHog]

The article states the system should be in effect by the year 2006. Only slightly behind schedule. I would assume an alternate way would be found into CUT or another station built.

[HoosierVirg]

Here is the group working for the High Speed Rail.

http://www.midwesthsr.org/index.htm

[scraphauler]

I would assume an alternate way would be found into CUT or another station built.

You can get into CUT pretty easily off CIND - you just can't come in from/go out to Kentucky without the moves mentioned above.  If the High Speed Rail terminates/originates in Cincinnati, there's no problem going via CIND.   As for another station, the City of Cincinnati/Queen City Metro have "plans" to build a new multi-modal transportation center in the Second Street Transit Corridor under 2nd Street between Paul Brown Stadium and Great American Ballpark.  The new center would connect to the end of the CIND Ditch track at Longworth Hall and the IORY Oasis Line just west of the Montgomery Inn Boathouse, and would serve to reconnect the Ditch and Oasis lines which where severed by the stadium contruction.  The lower level (which is currently a parking lot) would serve as a terminal for bus, heavy, and light rail, and connection with the street car system would be made at street level above.  The street car system might actually happen - proponents have a sizable chunk of funding lined up already.  The rest of it is still pie in the sky.

[scraphauler]

Took advantage of no Honda train operating today to do some "house cleaning" on the siding at Sunman and the stored hoppers on the main west of Honda.  Net result was addition of 10 more BNSF hoppers from Sunman, for a total of 61 now parked on the main between Adams and the washout.   

[Jeffrey J Mitchell]

Went across the tracks on Progress Rd. and noticed that something surely had broken through the snow that had been built up from the snow plows. Sure looked like something bigger than a hi-rail. Anyone have any clues?

[INprinter]

I'll look when I go home tonight, but, to this day, not the first train has activated that crossing. CSX has the track red flagged just east of Amos road overpass, like 10 feet east of the overpass. You have to hang over the railing to see the red flag.

Addendum:

Snow was only broken through on the west side of the crossing. East side untouched. Really looks like one of the CSX white pickup trucks went through there and got off at Progress Parkway crossing. They run through to Shelbyville around once a month and get off there at the crossing and then sit there by the electrical shed for awhile doing whatever it is they do. Don't think that snow got pushed out of the way by a train.

Inprinter

[OS_IJ]

In the for what its worth category. There was a Sperry Rail Service hi rail truck sitting in the gas station lot at St Rd #3 and Freeland road in Greensburg Tuesday evening just before sunset.

[Jeffrey J Mitchell]

I'll look when I go home tonight, but, to this day, not the first train has activated that crossing. CSX has the track red flagged just east of Amos road overpass, like 10 feet east of the overpass. You have to hang over the railing to see the red flag.

Addendum:

Snow was only broken through on the west side of the crossing. East side untouched. Really looks like one of the CSX white pickup trucks went through there and got off at Progress Parkway crossing. They run through to Shelbyville around once a month and get off there at the crossing and then sit there by the electrical shed for awhile doing whatever it is they do. Don't think that snow got pushed out of the way by a train.

Inprinter

Nothing like a little wishful thinking.

[INprinter]

In the for what its worth category. There was a Sperry Rail Service hi rail truck sitting in the gas station lot at St Rd #3 and Freeland road in Greensburg Tuesday evening just before sunset.

Would they be the folks that will repair the washout there west of CR520 by the Pipeline field?

Inprinter

[INprinter]

Nothing like a little wishful thinking.

I think the last real train to have traveled through Shelbyville was back in the Conrail days. I'm sure someone on the list could tell us exactly when that was, but it has been so long that I don't really hold my breath any longer waiting for the next time that occurs. I think we would have more "trains" if CIND took over the ROW all the way to Indy. With trees down, culvert washed-out and "red flags" on the east end of the CSX section of trackage, I don't think any trains will be traversing the line anytime soon. It will certainly take some sort of economic opportunity developing someplace close to Shelbyville on the east side or at least somewhere between Shelbyville and Greensburg for this section of the line to come back to life. It seems that for now at least this section is going to be used for nothing but storage, that is if they actually fix that washed out culvert by the pipeline field.

Inprinter

[CSX_CO]

Sperry does hi-rail testing of the railroad track structure to try and find defects before they cause bigger problems.  Railroads contract them out to do testing, in addition to their own testing (if so equiped).

CSX was all ready to upgrade the Shelbyville to 40 mph running when Honda announced the plans to build in Greensburg.  When they announced all traffic would go to the NS at Cincy, CSX pulled the plans to upgrade the line.  Why spend the money on it for 40 mph running for just a handful of customers in Shelbyville?  They are still getting 5 day a week service with 1 crew as is, and CSX doesn't have to spend a dime on the line.  It gets hi-railed once a week (Wednesdays usually), and problems get fixed when they get too bad to be ignored anymore.

Not that it will happen, but get Honda to shift traffic towards Indy and you will see upgrades almost overnight.

Practice Safe CSX

[scraphauler]

I think the last real train to have traveled through Shelbyville was back in the Conrail days. I'm sure someone on the list could tell us exactly when that was, but it has been so long that I don't really hold my breath any longer waiting for the next time that occurs. I think we would have more "trains" if CIND took over the ROW all the way to Indy. With trees down, culvert washed-out and "red flags" on the east end of the CSX section of trackage, I don't think any trains will be traversing the line anytime soon. It will certainly take some sort of economic opportunity developing someplace close to Shelbyville on the east side or at least somewhere between Shelbyville and Greensburg for this section of the line to come back to life. It seems that for now at least this section is going to be used for nothing but storage, that is if they actually fix that washed out culvert by the pipeline field.

Inprinter

Last "Real" train through Shelbyville?  Depends on how you define real train.   CIND (pre-Railtex) embargoed the line in late February 1997.  From 1992 to Feb 1997, all of CIND's Conrail interchange, plus interchange with CERA/TPW took place at Hill Yard in Beech Grove, and CIND was running good sized (30+ car, 2 or more locomotives) though Shelbyville 2 to 4 times per week.  After CIND (Railtex) reopened the line, interchange never returned to Indy, and only the handful of misc. cars where interchanged in Shelbyville (for CSXT convenience).   Prior to CIND, between 1985 and 1989, Conrail operated a INCI on Mondays and Thursdays and a CIIN on Tuesdays and Fridays through Shelbyville, but they where really nothing more that glorified WSAV-72 locals and carried VERY LITTLE overhead traffic.  Prior to 1985, the last through road trains (non-locals) would have been the SY-4 and CC-3 manifest trains and the ULG coal trains to/from Gary.  Those went away when line suffered a major washout on the hill east of Sunman late in the Penn Central era or in the early day of Conrail (1975-1977, somewhere around there)

As for the current washout, contract has been awarded - believe a local construction company from the Brookville IN area got the contract.  Materials are on order and construction should start soon - still saying 3/1/09 for line reopening.  But you are correct, it still will only be used for storage west of St Paul.

[scraphauler]

Repair work has begun on the washout bridge.  Crews where busy today demolishing the old bridge.

[INprinter]

Scraphauler,

Thanks for the info on the "last real train" through Shelbyville. Also, nice shots of the repair work. It is good to see that happen even if it is to only accomodate some storage activity farther west on the line. It will be somewhat interesting to see how far up the line towards Shelbyville they use the tracks for car storage.

Inprinter

[INprinter]

Here are some closeups of that washout area.

Inprinter