Author Topic: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville  (Read 22318 times)

INprinter

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #180 on: February 03, 2012, 09:04:45 PM »
And one more...

INprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

INprinter

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #181 on: May 09, 2012, 01:53:18 PM »
Should be some activity west of Honda today, although it will probably be limited to just west of Adams area.  The downturn in the coal market caused the deal for the cars that been stored at far west end to fall apart, so the movement pictured in the previous posts in this thread never made it past Honda.  Since then, another empty train had shown up for storage, so both trains where kept on main behind Honda.  This morning, CIND is enroute to Greensburg with yet another empty train for storage.  No room at the inn to park this train without moving others.  Anticipate at least the set parked between middle and west Honda crossovers will be shoved west of Adams out toward the "pipeyard" - both currently stored trains could end up west of Adams to open up main between east and middle Honda crossovers to give CIND a little more flexibility in switching Honda.

Creeping back West...

INprinter
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INprinter

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #182 on: May 15, 2012, 07:31:02 PM »
Scrappy,

I was down past the old pipe field location on Sunday and most of that track is now full of coal hoppers.

INprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

k9fon

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #183 on: June 20, 2012, 12:30:27 PM »
Why does CSX keep a line that has very little online business?

IndyHog

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #184 on: June 20, 2012, 01:54:00 PM »
Just guessing , they don't want anyone else to have it.
Meet the new boss, he's the same as the old boss......

CIND 2254

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #185 on: June 20, 2012, 03:00:52 PM »
CSX makes enough with the business that they have in Shelbyville. Down some with the economy im sure though.

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scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #186 on: June 20, 2012, 03:19:55 PM »
Just guessing , they don't want anyone else to have it.

In my opinion, it would be more accurate to say they don't want RailAmerica to have it.  CIND (RA) holds right of first refusal on this line (as well as the line to Frankfort) should Conrail or it's successors (CSX in this case) decide to sell or abandon the line.  This dates back to the Shelbyville Secondary sales agreement between Conrail and Central.  My guess, again, just speculation on my part, is that if this agreement did not exist, CSXT would have already found a way to quietly spin this line (and maybe even the Frankfort line) off to their little stock investment known as the INRD with an agreement to have INRD to the physical switch and CSXT to keep the lion's share of roadhaul revenue.

Reason this piece was not sold to CIND in the first place was at time of sale, Gencor Automotive (or whatever their name was) was kicking out a dozen or more 86' autoparts boxes as day going to General Motors in Wilmington DE and Framingham MA.  They where not comfortable turning the originating switch for this high dollar traffic over to a shortline.  By the time Gencor lost the GM contract, thus drying up and blowing away, CR was already in the early stages of their break up and where not interested in entertaining selling ANYTHING. 

Jeff

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #187 on: June 20, 2012, 09:04:07 PM »
Would CIND be interested if the offer came up?

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #188 on: November 27, 2012, 07:35:51 AM »
Before CSX took the track in Shelbyville out of service severing the connection to CIND, Cincinnati Railway would haul their PV's back and forth to Indy for AMTRAK pick up. AMTRAK would haul the cars from the station out to Beech Grove where they would meet the I & O, CIND or Cincinnati Railway (I'm not sure which one!) for the haul back to Norwood. The problem was that out and back for the pick up crew would take longer than 12 hours, especially if CSX held the train at Queensgate. It was also prior to the CIND Honda upgrade of the line so there was a lot of 10 and 20 mph running.

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #189 on: November 27, 2012, 11:52:52 AM »
CIND has rights to interchange traffic (passenger or freight) with AMTK Beech Grove.   Cincinnati Railway operates (operated) in/out of Beech Grove as a CIND movement. 

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #190 on: December 05, 2012, 03:17:13 PM »
Looks like the crossing signal work taking place on the line east of Honda is also taking place west of Honda on the "unused" portion of the line.  Noticed this past weekend that all signals in Adams and St Paul now have new LED heads.  Lights in Waldron where still the old ones as of this past Sunday, but the pile of old signal heads at the signal dept "depot" in Batesville continues to grow, so they may have been replaced in past couple days as well.

Nothing new for this portion of the line.  Line still blocked with 140 aluminum coal cars west of Adams at the "pipeyard" and another 46 misc cars at the west end of Honda, just east of Adams.   Lots of rumbling of new customers and/or new traffic looking at line, but nothing imminent yet.

Chessie_GW97

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #191 on: December 05, 2012, 11:33:39 PM »
From what I hear about GWI, they seem to be good at luring new customers. The future could be bright!
David R.

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #192 on: December 20, 2012, 10:11:25 PM »
Rare movement west of Honda today.  The 30 aluminum tub cars where dug out and shipped east today,  Now only thing left west of Honda property now is the 110 aluminum rapid discharge cars - these are parked at the "pipeyard".  Still have a mix of hoppers, high side gons, and 2 bulkhead flats parked on main at Honda, just west of middle crossover.   I keep hoping they tell me to get these cars out of there.  Sooner or later.......

arobb00

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #193 on: January 06, 2013, 07:10:47 PM »
The local to G'burg this afternoon had a bulkhead flat with a wrecked high-side gon on it.  Had what looked like ten or so cars, mix of gons mostly that I could see, and was just pulling into the Lowes spur with the train to switch NexGen tankers out.  Red geep for power.  I think Scraphauler mentioned the wreck-on-bulkead-flat was headed for Sunman in another post.  Well it will be there today!  ;D

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #194 on: July 06, 2013, 08:35:05 PM »
Back in October 2008, Mr. INprinter posted below photo of the CIND main between St Paul and Waldron, looking railroad east from Shelby County 500S, looking down toward the area the REX pipeline was going to be punched under the tracks.   I returned to that location today to see the results of CIND's decision to take that line out of service and cease all routine maintenance and vegetation control.  As I mention in a Trivia thread, one change on the CIND under G&W is that the CIND management has decided to quit marketing the west end of the CIND for car storage, is no longer doing any sort of maintenance (other than required crossing signal maintenance), and had line listed as out of service.   There is no interest in establishing interchange with anyone in Indianapolis (including sister G&W road ISRR), nor to exercise their trackage rights to Frankfort.  Basically, as far as CIND is concerned, the line now ends just west of Honda.  The 'end of track" is a 110 car set of older aluminum hoppers parked at the old "pipeyard" that are owned by a major national bank.  Bank seem content to just let these sit and run out their depreciation schedule.  They probably wont move until bank finally decides to scrap.   Between there and Honda, they'll continue to use the line for storage until brush conditions dictate otherwise (probably only another year or so)

There's little chance that CIND will ever try to abandon the line.  Any filing would certainly be protested by the local economic development folks, likely by Honda and other customers, and would open the door for another carrier to file an OFA and get control of the line, potentially getting access to Honda.  Rather, until Honda says they want to go to Indy, or some new traffic unexpectedly materializes, (or a genie grants a "high speed" passenger rail wish), It appears the line will slowly be enveloped in green.

Pic 1 is INprinter's pic from 5 years ago
Pic 2 is picture from same spot taken today (open and expand to actual size to get similar telephoto view as pic 1)
Pic 3 is looking west from Adams (just west of Honda) at storage cars hiding in the jungle.  This pic was also taken today and is a better shot that the crappy cell phone shot from same location that was subject of a Trivia thread.



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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #195 on: July 06, 2013, 09:07:29 PM »
Scrap, do you think that status would change when CSX finally sells the track to Shelbyville?
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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #196 on: July 07, 2013, 11:29:23 AM »
What the chance in the future that Honda would ever want to ship west to Indy?  Does it look like CIND will keep this section of track "out of service" for near term only or potentially for long term?

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #197 on: July 07, 2013, 11:36:50 AM »
Scrap, do you think that status would change when CSX finally sells the track to Shelbyville?

I know CIND holds right of first refusal on the balance of the Shelbyville line (and the line to Frankfort) should CSXT ever decide to sell off.  It used to be a foregone conclusion that CIND would buy if ever offered.  Now I'm not so sure, but would still would have to assume they would still grab if they had the chance.   Based on conversations I've had on some potential traffic, it certainly seems that the only way CIND would be interested in reestablishing an interchange with CSXT on west end of line would be for a MAJOR piece of traffic.  Something like Honda saying they want to ship 30 car loads a day that way or someone offering them 2 or 3 unit trains a week.  Anything short of that they want to handle at Cincinnati.  Volume at Shelbyville is light - a couple dozen cars per week if that?   If CIND took over Shelbyville,  I'm not so sure the volume there would change their minds on a western interchange point - they very well may restore Greensburg to Shelbyville and shut line down west of Shelbyville. 

If you remember, back in our day, marketing on IORY, CIND, and ISRR where handled by the same guys.  That's why you saw some limited success in finding traffic to/from ISRR that bridged across CIND, mainly alcohol off ISRR to river at Cincinnati or into Canada via CN.  That all went away when CIND was shut down for Honda construction and never returned.  Now CIND is a member of the Ohio Valley Region of G&W based in Columbus OH and ISRR is a member of the Midwest Region of G&W based on Peoria.  G&W regions seem to operate pretty autonomously - they look for opportunities inside the region between sister roads, but trying to connect the dots between regions does not seem to be any part of their current business plan.  If you recall, their STB filing to take over RA basically said as much pointing out there would be no two to one carrier customers, and very little end to end connections or marketing (in order to expedite STB approval).

What the chance in the future that Honda would ever want to ship west to Indy?  Does it look like CIND will keep this section of track "out of service" for near term only or potentially for long term?

I think its out of service"long term".  Sure, Honda could change their mind and want to go to Indy, but 3/4s or more of their traffic goes to NS, so it would probably be a major nationwide shift for Honda away from NS that would ever force traffic to Indy.  Could happen, which is why I don't think line ever gets abandoned - just don't see it in foreseeable future.  And as traffic patterns switch around nationwide in the evolving rail landscape, who to say something big will never appear to reopen entire line.

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #198 on: July 30, 2013, 05:07:26 PM »
Does the NS have some advantage shipping autos? They appear to be the main shipper for Honda and Toyota here in IN. Is that just an IN thing or do they dominate auto shipping across the country?

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scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #199 on: July 31, 2013, 11:07:02 PM »
Does the NS have some advantage shipping autos? They appear to be the main shipper for Honda and Toyota here in IN. Is that just an IN thing or do they dominate auto shipping across the country?

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Not really - I think its just that NS's Industrial Development folks have been more aggressive/successful in the past few years than CSXT.  But speaking as a metals and minerals customer, I think that pendulum has swung back to CSXT in past year or two as NS works to DE-market themselves from some moves.  Even so, as it pertains to Honda, I think Honda likes using NS over CSXT off the CIND served plant to keep CSXT honest at the Ohio plants.  Class 1's, (not just CSX) are notorious for taking advantage of large shippers who are captive to their service.  They will keep raising their rates until you can demonstrate that you have alternatives to their service.  CSXT knows that while very unlikely, if push comes to shove, Honda could turn on a truck convoy and move a significant chunk of traffic by truck from Marysville and East Liberty to Greensburg and load out on rail via NS (or even CN). That threat plus not getting much of the Indiana traffic helps keep CSXT from taking them for granted in Ohio.  Likewise,  potential CSXT, and to a lessor extent CN, competition helps keep NS's rates in check out of Cincinnati.