Author Topic: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville  (Read 46690 times)

INprinter

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CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« on: October 26, 2008, 10:06:32 PM »
Here are a few pics I gathered today of the CIND West of Greensburg. Those trees Scraphauler was referring to are down on the ROW just East of the St. Paul trestle and then just East of Waldron. That one at the trestle(trestle is in foreground of picture) is fairly good sized and if it has been laying there since the "hurricane" storm then looks like no one is in a hurry to get any service West of Greensburg. Some sections of the ROW are totally covered with waist high weeds and grass. Crossing sign is missing at E250S crossing near Shelbyville as well. Makes you wonder what all that "track improvement" work was about some months ago. I guess a few more paying customers along the line might improve the situation.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

blue2golf

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 08:22:00 PM »
The track itself seems to be in fine shape.  When was the last time it saw a train?
No train expert here fellas, just your average history buff...

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 06:36:08 AM »
The track itself seems to be in fine shape.  When was the last time it saw a train?
Thats the kind of scenery that really makes a train look like it belongs there.
Dont put anything here that may upset a "mod".

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 08:11:41 AM »
Line is in good shape - just received ties and surfacing last year.  Last "through" train to Shelbyville and points west with CSXT and ISRR interchange ran in September of 2006, prior to the line being shut down for Honda construction.    This past winter/spring, the line into St Paul from Greensburg saw regular service with the unit pipe trains running to the line-side pipe yard established for the REX Pipeline project. (Those trains ran over the track in inprinters first pic)   West of St Paul (inprinters second pic), the line has only seen work trains related to the tie/surface job since Sept 06.   

Line currently out of service west of the pipe yard to the CSXT/CIND property line at Shelbyville due to one or more culvert/drainage/washout issues related to the heavy rains earlier this year.  CIND does plan on restoring line later this fall or winter so that line is available in case they (or Honda) need it, however, it is currently NOT a priority to them as the CSXT line from the property line to the yard in Shelbyville remains out of service due to poor track conditions.  No one seems to have any idea on when CSXT will restore this portion of track. 

Personally, I do not see the west end of CIND restored to regular service until one of three things happen:
1)  Honda wants to go over Indy for some reason and forces the issue with CSXT
2)  CIND comes up with a significant piece of new biz that must go over Indy - i.e., something to or from  ISRR or INRD or possibly something to utilize their long unused trackage rights to Frankfort.
3)  CSXT sells line from Beech Grove to Shelbyville to CIND

Short of that, I've given up hope of any traffic returning to a Indy/Shelbyville interchange. 

The opinions, views, and incoherent ramblings presented here do not necessarily represent the view point of any company I work for or own,  any logical thinking being, or even me.

Jeffrey J Mitchell

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 10:54:45 AM »
You would think that the traffic that hits Shelbyville, especially Knauf, CSX would use this line since it is a straight shot to Cincinnati. I can't believe all traffic to this city comes from the West. Putting the track back into service I would think would open that line for rights with maybe some cash flow for a little work on CSX's side.

CSX_CO

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 09:52:26 PM »
You would think that the traffic that hits Shelbyville, especially Knauf, CSX would use this line since it is a straight shot to Cincinnati. I can't believe all traffic to this city comes from the West. Putting the track back into service I would think would open that line for rights with maybe some cash flow for a little work on CSX's side.

Traffic goes to Indy because going to Cincy would require handing it off to CIND.  Why include an intermediate when you can get the lions share of the haul via your own routing.

I'd wager that much of the other traffic goes via Indy anyway.  I should trace some cars sometime, but my bet is most of the traffic for the Shelbyville Industries does in fact come from points west or points more direct to Indy then Cincy.

Practice Safe CSX

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2008, 08:09:21 AM »
I believe Knauff gets three primary commodities - sand, soda ash, and nephaline.  They sand comes either from northern Virginia/Maryland or northern Illinois, the soda ash comes from Wyoming, and the nephaline from western Canada.   The various plastic/chemical customers products mostly come from the "Chemical Coast" of Texas/Louisiana and predominantly come to CSXT over St Louis.  Cullpeper's lumber comes from all over, as does the steel O'neal occasionally gets.  Any traffic CSXT has for Shelbyville that comes over Cincinnati simply runs up the Indianapolis sub then back down to Shelbyville - no need to pay CIND to bridge it for them.   Likely the only way any of Shelbyville's local traffic would move over Cincinnati would be if CSXT sells the line to CIND and some of the traffic gets rerouted to NS. 

As for CIND traffic changing to a CSXT Beech Grove interchange vs. Cincinnati interchange, there simply isn't enough difference in the rates to make it worth while for CIND.  The existing (pre-Honda) business in concentrated at the east end of the line.  On the traffic they could get a greater share of revenue by going over Beech Grove, it's not enough to justify the extra time and expense of hauling west vs. turning over to CSXT in Cincinnati.  The local business in Greensburg is predominantly Norfolk Southern oriented or strictly on-line to Ohio River terminals.  Only business that currently make sense to do over the Beech Grove interchange is some of my Sunman traffic, as CIND charges a flat fee for my cars regardless of where they come from, and CSXT charges a mileage based empty on own wheels charge for my cars going to/coming from shop.  But even there, there is not that big of a difference in the rate, nor a big enough volume to try and force the interchange back open.
The opinions, views, and incoherent ramblings presented here do not necessarily represent the view point of any company I work for or own,  any logical thinking being, or even me.

INprinter

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 07:04:06 PM »
Well, these two found a good use for that trackage between Honda and Shelbyville. :o)

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 05:52:28 PM »
Was able to grab a shot of the washout that has the westend of the CIND shut down.  This is about 1/2 way between the road crossings AT the pipe yard - looking down track behind pipe yard, it's where the line bottoms out - about the east edge of pipeyard.  This was a stone culvert - completely gone now.  Notice in the back ground that the fiber optic line has been relocated and hung on poles past the wash.

Repair status is still on hold.  Since there is no pressing need for service west of the wash (I've heard CIND is compensating the elevator in St Paul to truck to Gburg and load, not sure how accurate that is), and with the economic downturn, RailAmerica is going to take it's time on this one.  They may advertise the repair out sometime after first of year to see what kind of bids they get to fix it, but no guarantee they award the contract.

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INprinter

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2008, 09:24:29 PM »
I'd say that is a trainstopper.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

INprinter

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 09:47:39 PM »
Scraphauler,

Do you think those big road engines that hauled the pipe in here earlier this year could have contributed to that culvert failure? Or, was it just old age, lack of repairs, heavy rains etc.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2008, 08:13:47 AM »
Scraphauler,

Do you think those big road engines that hauled the pipe in here earlier this year could have contributed to that culvert failure? Or, was it just old age, lack of repairs, heavy rains etc.

Inprinter

Seriously doubt the pipe trains had anything to do with failure.  As you know, the HEAVY rain up there earlier this year had those fields standing with water and even the smallest stream was a raging river.  If the culvert was too small to handle volume, or was plugged/partially plugged, the water is still going to find it's way through, and this is the result. 
The opinions, views, and incoherent ramblings presented here do not necessarily represent the view point of any company I work for or own,  any logical thinking being, or even me.

INprinter

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008, 09:23:30 PM »
I got down there by the pipe field today. With all of the vegetation gone along the ROW it is now easy to see that washout area from the road. There was obviously some serious water flowing in around that culvert to do the kind of damage you see in the pictures. I zoomed way in with the telephoto and got some close up shots.

Inprinter

PS. Looks like about 1/4 of the pipe has been moved out of the pipe field from what I can see. At least one full row of pipe plus other partial rows are now gone.
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

Bob

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2008, 10:08:59 PM »
Excellent shots Inprinter  :)
I guess this is one way to figure out which ties are bad.
Track schematic says this is a 12' concrete box culvert.  Looks like maybe there is a tall concrete beam down the middle.  The side beams look a bit thin for a 12' span.  There is a 21 footer at Brandywine tower which appears to be the longest.  These are pretty common west of Greensburg.  East of Greensburg spans this size are mostly concrete arches.

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2008, 04:45:28 PM »
It is probably too late now, but I hope the EMA in that county got CIND to file a claim with FEMA when they were in our area for the floods. They might have got some help on this.
Dan
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gpd240

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2008, 12:09:36 AM »
Dan you kidding right.... Oh man my side is hurting with that one.... ;D

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2009, 06:32:13 PM »
There was a little activity on the line west of Honda this week.  This past Wednesday, an extra from Valley Jct shoved 51 former BNSF (still in BNSF marks) rapid discharge coal hoppers out to the grade crossing on Country Rd 520 W.  Cars are in temporary storage (60-90 days hopefully) for a certain leasing company.  Have another dozen and a half still coming, but they'll end up in Sunman.   The good news is that it is sounding like the washout might be repaired this coming spring, which will allow direct service to Kolkmeier to resume.  Bad news (for those looking for through trains to return) is that the entire line (or a good portion of it) between St Paul and the property line at Shelbyville could possibly end up getting rented out for the balance of the year for bi-level auto rack and intermodal equipment storage.
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Jeffrey J Mitchell

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 11:23:56 AM »
There was a little activity on the line west of Honda this week.  This past Wednesday, an extra from Valley Jct shoved 51 former BNSF (still in BNSF marks) rapid discharge coal hoppers out to the grade crossing on Country Rd 520 W.  Cars are in temporary storage (60-90 days hopefully) for a certain leasing company.  Have another dozen and a half still coming, but they'll end up in Sunman.   The good news is that it is sounding like the washout might be repaired this coming spring, which will allow direct service to Kolkmeier to resume.  Bad news (for those looking for through trains to return) is that the entire line (or a good portion of it) between St Paul and the property line at Shelbyville could possibly end up getting rented out for the balance of the year for bi-level auto rack and intermodal equipment storage.

Well if that doesn't suck.

scraphauler

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2009, 08:11:35 PM »
Update on bridge repair:  Repair work will begin as soon as material shows up.  Material was either ordered last week or will be this coming week.  Sounds like new bridge will be a precast concrete type structure.  Current plan is to have west end reopened by 3/1/09.  Unfortunately, that only gets you to the new Progress Parkway crossing in Shelbyville.  CSXT still has line from there to yard out of service and still no ETA on it's return to service (serious doubts by several on both CIND and CSXT that they ever plan on it).  Also, it sounds like CIND is in fact getting some sort of State or Federal "disaster aid" for the repair work.

If a work train is needed in conjuction with this repair work, the stored BNSF hoppers will simply be moved up to Honda or Lowes lead while that train runs, then return to where they currently sit.  They will stay there until such time they are pulled from storage or CIND has a reason to go to St Paul.  When that time comes, that job will simply couple into the BNSF cars and shove them west, shoving them past St Paul toward Waldron.  Also sounds like there is still a decent chance that "several hundred" TTX cars could show up for storage (my guess is Bi Level autorack or intermodal), plus there might be some more coal hoppers end up stored up there over next several weeks.  If everything goes as planed, all the hoppers (current BNSF ones and any future ones) will flush out by late spring to early summer - doubt any TTX equipment parked would be as fortunate.

At least the line is not in any danger of abandonment - someday through traffic will return.
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INprinter

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Re: CIND: Greensburg to Shelbyville
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2009, 07:30:26 PM »
Here are some pictures of those Hopper cars Scraphauler had mentioned in earlier post.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.