Author Topic: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility  (Read 2186 times)

scraphauler

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2019, 02:15:56 PM »
Poet invested heavily (crediting President Trump and his E15 policy as reason they are building Shelbyville) as they believed that the Renewable Fuel Standard would be enforce by the Administration.   However, the EPA under the Trump Administration has taken a 2016 10th Circuit Court ruling in the case of Sinclair vs EPA as license to hand out SREs like candy on Halloween.

MSchweibert does a great job explaining what e85, e10,etc. is, and why it replaced MBTE.  The law that forced this was the Renewable Fuel Standard that was originated by the Energy Policy Act of 2005 and was broadened by the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007.  But like all Federal Programs, there was a loop hole.  A refinery could file for a Small Refinery Exemption (SRE) to be exempt from the Renewable Fuel Standard.  A small refinery had to prove that complying with the requirements of RFS would be a “disproportionate economic hardship.” Initially, the EPA construed the “disproportionate economic hardship” element fairly narrowly, meaning that the small refinery applying for the exemption had a pretty high burden to prove. EPA’s narrow interpretation of that requirement attempted to single out and provide protection for small refineries that simply couldn’t meet the financial burden of complying with the requirements of the RFS.

However, in the 2016 court ruling, Sinclair Oil (hardly a "small" refiner) sued the EPA challenging the EPA's  interpretation of the “disproportionate economic hardship” requirement, arguing that EPA did not have the legal authority to interpret that requirement so narrowly.  AND THEY WON.  Since this court case, and a few other court cases just like it, EPA has used this as legal authority to justify granting numerous SREs. 

That's the back ground to explain the below comment made by Poet in the article starting this thread:

POET Chairman and CEO, Jeff Broin said in a press release the ethanol industry invested billions of dollars based on the belief that oil interests could not restrict access to the market and EPA would stand behind the intent of the RFS.
“Unfortunately, the oil industry is manipulating the EPA and is now using the RFS to destroy demand for biofuels, reducing the price of commodities and gutting rural economies in the process,”




The opinions, views, and incoherent ramblings presented here do not necessarily represent the view point of any company I work for or own,  any logical thinking being, or even me.

SankyInbound

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2019, 04:56:27 PM »
I am not a fan of bio fuels.  The ethanol in gasoline is very hard on fuel systems of small engines or any gas engine that doesn’t see daily use.  The stuff kills gaskets.  I have experienced bio diesel reaching a cloud point at around 15 degrees below freezing.  Makes for a lot of extra work and big pains that used to never be an issue.  No matter what you add to biodiesel when that stuff starts to gel you are done for.  No amount of Power Service additive will remedy the problem.  New filters, lots of kerosene, or completely draining the tank is the only fix.  It’s highly subsidized and propped up and the money could be better spent elsewhere in my opinion. 
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IndyHog

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2019, 08:21:56 PM »
Is there such a thing as a small refinery any more?
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Bob Durnell

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2019, 09:18:49 PM »
I am not a fan of bio fuels.  The ethanol in gasoline is very hard on fuel systems of small engines or any gas engine that doesn’t see daily use.  The stuff kills gaskets.  I have experienced bio diesel reaching a cloud point at around 15 degrees below freezing.  Makes for a lot of extra work and big pains that used to never be an issue.  No matter what you add to biodiesel when that stuff starts to gel you are done for.  No amount of Power Service additive will remedy the problem.  New filters, lots of kerosene, or completely draining the tank is the only fix.  It’s highly subsidized and propped up and the money could be better spent elsewhere in my opinion.

It's funny you should mention the small engine thing.  Tonight I went to get my portable generator going that hadn't been used since last October, where it was run with Stabil and put away.  I changed the oil and then drain the entire fuel system including the carburetor bowl and installed a new inline filter and filled it with fresh fuel.   I then tried to get it started, and the machine that normally starts on the 2nd pull wouldn't fire a lick.  After awhile I was sure I had flooded it, so I pulled the spark plug.  Bone dry. So I pulled the plug out of the fuel bowl, bone dry. I pulled the whole carb off the engine and found the fuel inlet passage to the needle valve completely plugged with ethanol laden fuel residue.  When I pulled the fuel bowl off, even though I had drained it, it looked like somebody had spilled Coke in there. This was brand new carburetor about two years ago.   I cleaned everything up, put it back together and it started on the first pull. 

Dustin

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2019, 10:32:32 PM »
Try 91 premium (no ethanol). Best for small engines.

steve_wall

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2019, 07:32:34 AM »
IndyHog--A "small refiner" is an operation producing 75,000 bbl/day or less. That is per Robert Rapier's column in Forbes

pabrankle

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2019, 01:51:47 PM »
Tweet from President Trump this morning"

“The Farmers are going to be so happy when they see what we are doing for Ethanol, not even including the E-15, year around, which is already done. It will be a giant package, get ready! At the same time I was able to save the small refineries from certain closing. Great for all!”

pr1952

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2019, 09:44:46 PM »
I'm not going to jump into the Trump vs farmers debate, but Valero at Linden is also shut down, word is that they will resume production at a low rate sometime this fall. Yes we farmers try to produce as much as we can as cheaply as we can to survive financially. We grow corn and soybeans because that is what sells around here. Attempts have been made to grow other crops, but there is no local market. Some are growing non-GMO crops but the premium for that will go away as soon as enough farmers decide to produce those crops and the lowered yields and increased costs will remain. There are few around here trying to market organic crops and there is a large premium for those right now (corn almost double in sale price) but yields are lower and weed control is not easy, plus there is the need to keep all chemicals off your land for 3 years to be considered organic. So we stick with what we know and can sell. By the way, what is being shipped north on the Monon in short hopper cars? I have seen groups of these in trains, and today saw a short train exclusively of those cars going north.

IndyHog

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2019, 11:27:45 PM »
usually sand or cement in those types of cars
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IU_Tower

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2019, 10:42:08 PM »
I am not a fan of bio fuels.  The ethanol in gasoline is very hard on fuel systems of small engines or any gas engine that doesn’t see daily use.  The stuff kills gaskets.  I have experienced bio diesel reaching a cloud point at around 15 degrees below freezing.  Makes for a lot of extra work and big pains that used to never be an issue.  No matter what you add to biodiesel when that stuff starts to gel you are done for.  No amount of Power Service additive will remedy the problem.  New filters, lots of kerosene, or completely draining the tank is the only fix.  It’s highly subsidized and propped up and the money could be better spent elsewhere in my opinion.

Shame I don't work at Indy Regional anymore. I could've got you a bunch of Jet-A to cut your diesel in the winter.... Could've gotten some DIGEM anti-ice fluid too

CSX_CO

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2019, 10:57:00 PM »
usually sand or cement in those types of cars

Not to get off topic, but I think Avon gets a lot of the return empties for the sand mines out around Ottawa, Illinois.  Those cars get pre-blocked at Avon for Ottawa, so get a lot of the short hoppers on Q642 going back to Chicago.

IndyKing

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Re: Poet to Close Cloverdale Indiana Facility
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2019, 10:35:05 PM »
usually sand or cement in those types of cars

I believe a number of the short 2-bay hoppers going North on the Monon are carrying cement from Limedale.
Cheers, Al