Author Topic: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside  (Read 1244 times)

Rick

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2019, 11:00:59 PM »
250-300k for normal light instalation. Adding posts only adds expense. The circuitry is whatís expensive. A brand new crossing light gate assembly (mast, normal four lights, electric bell, gate mechanism on mast, gate with 3 lights and crossbuck) is $30k. I know cause I just bought one to replace one a drunk took out.

A new installation on a typical two lane road with your idiot proof posts will run $500k easy.  Who pays for that?  We canít adequately fund crossing upgrades the way it is.  And how would posts change the outcome at Troy Ave?   As we have it,  our hero plows his/her car into a MOVING train, deflecting a lot of the energy laterally allowing car to bounce off at 45 degree angle.  If you have post, you now hit immovable object. Energy is absorbed in to car and occupant and debris continues into train.

If you are drunk high sleepy inattentive distracted or just plain stupid enough to plow into the side of a train, how are pop up posts gong to change anything. Maybe we need to remove some warning labels and devices and thin the herd a bit.
In the last 6-8 months weíve had two incidents just like that.  The train was already through the crossing, both times the dispatcher had to tell them they were hit by a car.  One I believe was 30 some cars through the crossing.  Neither had any idea they hit a train. 


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Dschro

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2019, 06:24:05 AM »
Darwin at work!

rrnut282

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2019, 09:07:56 AM »
250-300k for normal light instalation. Adding posts only adds expense. The circuitry is whatís expensive. A brand new crossing light gate assembly (mast, normal four lights, electric bell, gate mechanism on mast, gate with 3 lights and crossbuck) is $30k. I know cause I just bought one to replace one a drunk took out.

A new installation on a typical two lane road with your idiot proof posts will run $500k easy.  Who pays for that?  We canít adequately fund crossing upgrades the way it is.  And how would posts change the outcome at Troy Ave?   As we have it,  our hero plows his/her car into a MOVING train, deflecting a lot of the energy laterally allowing car to bounce off at 45 degree angle.  If you have post, you now hit immovable object. Energy is absorbed in to car and occupant and debris continues into train.

If you are drunk high sleepy inattentive distracted or just plain stupid enough to plow into the side of a train, how are pop up posts gong to change anything. Maybe we need to remove some warning labels and devices and thin the herd a bit.
I believe the barrier posts prevent the truck/auto from contacting the train, possibly derailing the train.  Also, since the train is no longer involved, it should not have to stop for the hours-long investigation.  Costs avoided:  PTSD for crew in a fatal situation, replacement crews for that train that most likely will not make it to the division point, replacement crews for all the other trains delayed waiting for the involved train to be released to move, track foremen won't have to inspect the rail, and some other things I can't think of right now.  Signal maintainer will still have to make the trip.  Based upon these avoided costs, I would think the railroads themselves would be interested in funding these.
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SemperVaporo

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2019, 01:00:44 PM »
That is way too far long-range thinking for the RRs to accommodate.
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OrangeAndBlack

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2019, 01:04:02 PM »
I believe the barrier posts prevent the truck/auto from contacting the train, possibly derailing the train.  Also, since the train is no longer involved, it should not have to stop for the hours-long investigation.  Costs avoided:  PTSD for crew in a fatal situation, replacement crews for that train that most likely will not make it to the division point, replacement crews for all the other trains delayed waiting for the involved train to be released to move, track foremen won't have to inspect the rail, and some other things I can't think of right now.  Signal maintainer will still have to make the trip.  Based upon these avoided costs, I would think the railroads themselves would be interested in funding these.

If a car hit a post like that at speed? It could eject anything from passenger to engine block at the train and youíre back at square one. In certain instances, depending on the design of the car, speed and angle of the impact, etc., a post could theoretically catapult the vehicle into the train.

Not to mention, I donít know how you properly maintain a road with a setup like that. Itís not costly or practical.

CSX_CO

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2019, 03:37:02 PM »
I believe the barrier posts prevent the truck/auto from contacting the train, possibly derailing the train.  Also, since the train is no longer involved, it should not have to stop for the hours-long investigation.  Costs avoided:  PTSD for crew in a fatal situation, replacement crews for that train that most likely will not make it to the division point, replacement crews for all the other trains delayed waiting for the involved train to be released to move, track foremen won't have to inspect the rail, and some other things I can't think of right now.  Signal maintainer will still have to make the trip.  Based upon these avoided costs, I would think the railroads themselves would be interested in funding these.

At, what, $5000 an accident for costs you describe (which is probably a great over estimation) youíd need to prevent at least 100 accidents to make back $500k investment Scrap mentioned.

Nevermind the first time someone smokes those things and the lawyers sues everyone for creating a virtual brick wall in a roadway...


trainmaster53

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2019, 03:49:24 PM »
If other Country's use them and People Stop, Then why can't the US Railroads use them. If they wont stop with Flashers and Gates then go there. After they hit them enough Times, Then maybe they will get the Message. Either Stop, Total Your Cars and Pay the Price. Them Maybe the Insurance Company's will send them Hiking.

Rick

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2019, 03:59:12 PM »
I believe the barrier posts prevent the truck/auto from contacting the train, possibly derailing the train.  Also, since the train is no longer involved, it should not have to stop for the hours-long investigation.  Costs avoided:  PTSD for crew in a fatal situation, replacement crews for that train that most likely will not make it to the division point, replacement crews for all the other trains delayed waiting for the involved train to be released to move, track foremen won't have to inspect the rail, and some other things I can't think of right now.  Signal maintainer will still have to make the trip.  Based upon these avoided costs, I would think the railroads themselves would be interested in funding these.
PTSD for crews is very rare.  Youíd be surprised how many out here couldnít care less if they hit someone or something and whether a fatality is involved or not.  Most if not all crews that Iíve encountered that have had a fatality still continue on with said train.  If itís a pedestrian then you are correct, a new crew is usually brought out but not always.  Itís crews discretion.  The other trains just run around the train that is being blocked once the other track becomes available which usually isnít very long.  Track foreman isnít called unless it causes a derail or the vehicle is carried down the tracks and it looks as if there is damage. 

The last fatality that Iím aware of from initial contact to getting the train moving was under two hours.  Dispatcher had things cleared up in about 4-5.  Not all will be like that but thatís what they would like to happen. 


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CSX_CO

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2019, 04:26:15 PM »
If other Country's use them and People Stop, Then why can't the US Railroads use them. If they wont stop with Flashers and Gates then go there. After they hit them enough Times, Then maybe they will get the Message. Either Stop, Total Your Cars and Pay the Price. Them Maybe the Insurance Company's will send them Hiking.

Because in most other countries, grade crossings with tracks are the exception, not the norm.

A quick Google Search turns up 6000 grade crossings in Britain.  1500 of those are public crossings.

Indiana alone has 5778 public crossings.  1941 private ones.  Indiana has the 4th most in the country.

So...our state alone has nearly the same total of *public* grade crossings, as total grade crossings of any type that  Britain has.

Not cost effective to put a $500k crossing protection in at every crossing.  Especially when driving laws tell you how to act at a crossing in the first place.

SemperVaporo

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Re: L&I involved in Car/Train Accident on Indy Southside
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2019, 05:15:11 PM »
If other Country's use them and People Stop, Then why can't the US Railroads use them. If they wont stop with Flashers and Gates then go there. After they hit them enough Times, Then maybe they will get the Message. Either Stop, Total Your Cars and Pay the Price. Them Maybe the Insurance Company's will send them Hiking.
If hitting a post barrier enough times would get people to stop or get insurance companies to send them hiking... then hitting the train would have accomplished the same thing already.
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