Author Topic: CSX has a new customer  (Read 2322 times)

rogerhensley

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CSX has a new customer
« on: May 03, 2019, 06:26:16 AM »
That may sound weird, but its true. There has been an abandoned cement plant in Anderson that has been ideal for years. Not anymore. In March, I was over there and took a few photos of the plant being overhauled. Yesterday, I was back taking photos of the 5 rail cars that CSX had delivered o the plant. Now, the plant isn't finished yet, but things are moving along. :-)  (And, yes, I had permission to take the photos.)
You may see all of the photos at http://madisonrails.railfan.net/photo2019.html









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MSchwiebert

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2019, 08:40:30 AM »
Based on the freight cars, it's not cement, but I wonder what it is?

IU_Tower

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2019, 10:29:34 AM »
Based on the freight cars, it's not cement, but I wonder what it is?

Sure looks like cement hoppers, identical to the ones found on the LIRC and SIND in Cement, IN

MSchwiebert

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2019, 11:46:23 AM »
Interesting,  I thought cement had to ship in covered hoppers that could be pressurized (Airslides & Pressureaides) as the cement - due to being a fine powder would "compact" during transit and not flow out on its own.

doublestacks

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2019, 11:52:13 AM »
Interesting,  I thought cement had to ship in covered hoppers that could be pressurized (Airslides & Pressureaides) as the cement - due to being a fine powder would "compact" during transit and not flow out on its own.

your right. not sure what that is all about, but i do recognize something in the first photo. that platform with stairs on the left of the photo, next to the man lift. thats for dry bulk tankers to pull under. the driver then gets out and lowers that hand rail and catwalk over the tank so the driver can walk out ontop of his tank and has a safe guard around him to open/close the top hatch for loading.

it kinda reminds me of lehigh in mitchell, indiana. i rode along to get a couple loads down there in my day.
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KA9WXO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2019, 12:46:58 PM »
We have car #'s NRLX 34259, RGRX 1915, NRLX 34335, RGRX 1855, & another NRLX that I can't make out the number on, for a total of 5. What's UMLER say? Scrap? CSX_CO?

CIOR

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2019, 01:14:11 PM »
Those have what one guy joked as Gravity Slope sheets..  they use a vibration tool to loosen it up to flow on unloading. 

trainmaster53

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2019, 01:59:22 PM »
As I recall that Plant sets on the Southside of the Interstate.

Rick

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2019, 11:10:37 PM »
Those have what one guy joked as Gravity Slope sheets..  they use a vibration tool to loosen it up to flow on unloading.
If Iím not mistaken thatís what the square slots are for on the slopes towards the bottom of the car. 


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Freightrain

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2019, 08:22:05 AM »
If I remember correctly that silo Has a light blue emblem that says Lehigh Cement.

CSX_CO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2019, 09:20:21 AM »
34259 loaded with cement.  Loaded at Mitchell, IN

Wema

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2019, 10:08:19 AM »
I think thereís a trivia pic on here somewhere of Conrail serving the plant in the 1980s.

KA9WXO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2019, 01:05:07 PM »
Thank you.

KA9WXO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2019, 01:20:21 PM »
Anything interesting about it's route from Mitchell to Anderson? Intended vs actual?

CSX_CO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2019, 02:37:32 PM »
Anything interesting about it's route from Mitchell to Anderson? Intended vs actual?

Looks pretty standard. Mitchell to N Vernon (maybe?), picked up and taken to Cincinnati, to Avon, to Anderson.

I think I saw these cement cars and thought ďodd cement is going to AndersonĒ.  I just figured interchange to NS.

k9fon

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2019, 09:48:24 PM »
I remember seeing yellow Chessie hoppers at this silo back in April of 1986... Neat to see it active again...

Freightrain

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2019, 10:00:33 PM »
I remember gray CR hoppers 34 ' Maybe Square hatches on
Top maybe 1991 .

doublestacks

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2019, 12:25:38 PM »
that place does have some age to it. i just noticed in the last pic of the hoppers, and the ford truck in the pic. off to the left. those wavy panels with the chips missing out of them, are transite asbestos panels. that place was definitely built a while back.
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DM114836

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2019, 09:02:32 PM »
Oh my, A new customer ?!?!.......I bet Harrison is turning over in his grave.

CSX_CO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2019, 09:06:42 PM »
Oh my, A new customer ?!?!.......I bet Harrison is turning over in his grave.

A couple of them.  Place getting glass cullet around Muncie too.

Freightrain

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2019, 11:45:32 AM »
What is glass cullet used for

CIOR

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2019, 12:06:53 PM »
A couple of them.  Place getting glass cullet around Muncie too.

Who is that?  Only 2 sidings left in Muncie outside Borg Warner.  One is New 3, the other Abby Candles.  I miss that one??

scraphauler

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2019, 02:06:05 PM »
What is glass cullet used for

Cullet is the commodity - Cullet is broken or ground glass.  It goes to glass plants for recycling.  Usually from facilities that use raw sheet glass of their inbound product and make things like windshields, widows, etc.   It's all the waste product from that production.  A lot of times the broker handling the scrap glass will bring in from multiple non rail served plants to a central location where they will load into railcar - just depends on where the cullet has been sold to. 
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CSX_CO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2019, 03:23:59 PM »
Who is that?  Only 2 sidings left in Muncie outside Borg Warner.  One is New 3, the other Abby Candles.  I miss that one??

Heard it was at the old borg Warner site.  Next time I see a car, Iíll see if waybill shows a address.

SuperC

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2019, 06:22:24 PM »
Strategic Materials.  They are unloading at Hart Yd on south track.  Supposedly going to glass plant at Dunkirk.  Inbound loads come from Conneticut.  Been unloading since last summer, probably 10 cars a week.  Switched by 798/794 sidney-Anderson local.  They probably have 15 cars to unload right now.

Bob Durnell

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2019, 08:21:07 PM »
With that kind of volume, it wouldn't have been more efficient to rail it all the way to Dunkirk?

scraphauler

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2019, 09:01:22 PM »
With that kind of volume, it wouldn't have been more efficient to rail it all the way to Dunkirk?

Rates likely. Very hard to be truck competitive on moves that go CSXT to NS / NS to CSXT. It is often cheaper to rail as close as you can get and truck the rest of the way.  Without going into specifics, a move for say Conneticut to Indiana may be $2500 CSX direct but $4000 to go CSX direct. If you can rail and truck for $3500, then thatís what will end up happening.  Have several pieces of business like that right now - working on quite a few more
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Bob Durnell

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2019, 10:18:36 PM »
It just seems to me that if NS and CSX can't figure out how to work together to move ten cars a week at a price that beats the double handling involved with the trucks, they need to SERIOUSLY re-examine their business model.  But there again, the more small business you run off, the less volume you have to make the remaining potential moves viable. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

CSX_CO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2019, 10:46:45 PM »
It just seems to me that if NS and CSX can't figure out how to work together to move ten cars a week at a price that beats the double handling involved with the trucks, they need to SERIOUSLY re-examine their business model.  But there again, the more small business you run off, the less volume you have to make the remaining potential moves viable. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Jesus Christ. People on this board rail on and on about PSR on here.  Here is evidence of two instances of CSX getting customers since PSR implementation, and youíre saying that they arenít trying hard enough to get the cars to the customers door.

You people are seriously tough to please...
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 11:13:06 PM by CSX_CO »

CSX_CO

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2019, 12:40:24 AM »
Another factor is that the receiving customer may not be set up to receive the cullet direct.

Last I saw cullet, it was in open top hoppers, and the dumped it in a hole under the tracks.  Not exactly high tech, but if they arenít set up, getting it dropped at their front door doesnít do them a bit of good.

scraphauler

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2019, 12:50:24 AM »
In the past three years, CSXT has become competitive in short haul single car traffic.  Three years ago, CSXT would have never picked up this kind of traffic. Now as a general rule, NS is the one that wonít play ball (I know, how dare I say something against Saint Thoroughbred). 
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SankyInbound

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2019, 05:49:23 AM »
Jesus Christ. People on this board...

From my vantage point only the son of God himself could turn rusty rails into shiny ones on this railroad...  Just my 2 cents.  Good luck to the new customer, wish them the best, glad to see them!
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CSX2605

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2019, 06:34:30 AM »
From my vantage point only the son of God himself could turn rusty rails into shiny ones on this railroad...  Just my 2 cents.  Good luck to the new customer, wish them the best, glad to see them!
I really don't want to highjack a thread but that right there was funny!!   Or the Son of God may just sit down and cry with you. It could be that bad. LOL!

Bob Durnell

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2019, 08:13:23 AM »
Jesus Christ. People on this board rail on and on about PSR on here.  Here is evidence of two instances of CSX getting customers since PSR implementation, and youíre saying that they arenít trying hard enough to get the cars to the customers door.

You people are seriously tough to please...

Well damn me for wanting to see the railroads get 100% of the pie instead of just a piece of it. Yes, there are a lot of moves where the first and last mile doesn't fit rail transportation very well, but this seems like one of those moves that the railroads SHOULD be trying to get 100% of.  All of my life I have seen the truckers take what they want and leave the scraps for the railroads.  As a guy that's in the trucking business, great for me, but bad for you.  I remember as a little kid being flabbergasted at the fact that railroads couldn't figure out how to move iron ore from the Missabe Range to Pittsburgh with a 100% rail move cheaper than a rail/water/rail routing.

MSchwiebert

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2019, 10:52:08 AM »
Hard to defeat the efficiency of a Laker.  Look at the specs of a typical 1000 footer.   http://www.boatnerd.com/pictures/fleet/mesabi.htm

It can carry 63,300 tons of taconite, so using a 125 car ore train as "typical" (that's what runs from the port of Toledo to the mill in Middletown OH),  that's 5 train loads of taconite in one shot.  With no grades to contend with (other than the Soo Locks of course) , it can do this with just 16,000 HP. Additionally with it being a self-unloader, it can unload a trains worth of taconite in just over an hour.  Now what I didn't find was how many folks man the ship, but comparing that to how many rail crews it would take to move 5 trains from Duluth to Middletown probably isn't that different. Yes, there's the extra "touch" at the port of Toledo, but apparently that is a small enough variable not to use the lakers during the shipping season and stockpile at Toledo for when the lakes are closed. 

Bob Durnell

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2019, 12:12:42 PM »
On the other hand, you have the cost to build, maintain, staff and operate the boat, and you have two facilities that you wouldn't even NEED with an all rail move, and you could run year around, eliminating the need to stockpile.

MSchwiebert

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2019, 12:57:09 PM »
All valid points.  For the carriers that were involved in the Minnesota Iron ore business "back in the day", I don't "think" any of them made it to Chicago (maybe the Soo line was an exception),  so I'd think the interchanging to get it to the mills of Gary, Youngstown, etc. was a little tougher.   Of course, at the time, US Steel owned the boats and the railroads at both ends of the chain, so it could be viewed as a cost avoidance for them.  In any event, it would be interesting to see why for the non US steel business if consideration was given to going all-rail when the transition to taconite was made, in the 1950's/1960's.

Bob Durnell

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2019, 02:15:27 PM »
I know that Wisconsin Central was VERY interested in forwarding iron ore to Chicago and beyond, and DID move some, I think in conjunction with BN, but neither Conrail or Chessie seemed very excited about pursuing this business very hard according to WC.

MSchwiebert

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2019, 04:12:44 PM »
They did do an all rail routing to Middletown OH for a while, but that died out around when CN took over the WC.

blue2golf

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2019, 08:37:22 PM »
25 years?  Nice to see shiny rails put back into place. 
No train expert here fellas, just your average history buff...

rrnut282

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2019, 11:32:09 AM »
As much as I agree with Bob about this glass move, I see the situation.

Bob: why can't they interchange the cars in Muncie?  For crying out loud L80 can spot the cars at the glass factory just a couple of hours later.

Reality:  The glass factory in Dunkirk has one track.  It goes into a shed and is set up for unloading sand.  No car dumper to unload the cullet.  So they have to use trailers and a bobcat runs into the back to unload the cullet.  They *might* be able to unload open-top cars outside the shed with a clam bucket crane, but that would most likely be slower than the bobcat. 
FYI, they have their own trackmobile to shuffle sand cars in/out of the unloading shed. 
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scraphauler

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2019, 12:56:12 PM »
Debating woulda/shoulda/coulda does nothing but fill up the board.  Fact of the matter is Norfolk Southern's minimum rate to handle Cullet per their public tariff is $2888.00 per car.  So the question becomes can whomever is paying freight on this move truck it from a CSXT rail head cheaper than interchanging car to NS for rail direct. 

Can you find a cheaper through rate by interchanging at Buffalo, or Cleveland, or Pittsburgh?  Possibly.   But this freight payer would have to have someone on staff to run those scenarios or employ a service to do such.  CSXT surely isn't going to volunteer it cheaper to short haul themselves (nor should they).   I do this stuff daily for the customers of the railroads, transload facilities, and car fleets I represent. 

As a side note, CSXT has become fairly good to deal with - they will get aggressive for business and contrary to railfan lore, seem to have interest in single car business.  BNSF is by far easiest to deal with, and KCS is a close second.  CN, UP, and CSXT are all kinda there in the middle with CN and CSXT improving and UP slipping.  NS has niches where they are good, but overall they stink on ice and are running traffic away as fast as they can.  But they get a free pass for the Crayola Fleet).  And then there's CP.  The perennial lost ball in tall weeds.
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Freightrain

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2019, 01:24:44 PM »
They probably don't need more than 2 trucks that's great 2 Trucks Muncie to Dunkirk better than 30 or so from Connecticut

rrnut282

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2019, 02:13:38 PM »
Debating woulda/shoulda/coulda does nothing but fill up the board. ...
Do you think this board would exist if there were no debating? ;)
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Bob Durnell

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Re: CSX has a new customer
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2019, 03:44:19 PM »
Debating woulda/shoulda/coulda does nothing but fill up the board.  Fact of the matter is Norfolk Southern's minimum rate to handle Cullet per their public tariff is $2888.00 per car.  So the question becomes can whomever is paying freight on this move truck it from a CSXT rail head cheaper than interchanging car to NS for rail direct. 

Can you find a cheaper through rate by interchanging at Buffalo, or Cleveland, or Pittsburgh?  Possibly.   But this freight payer would have to have someone on staff to run those scenarios or employ a service to do such.  CSXT surely isn't going to volunteer it cheaper to short haul themselves (nor should they).   I do this stuff daily for the customers of the railroads, transload facilities, and car fleets I represent. 

As a side note, CSXT has become fairly good to deal with - they will get aggressive for business and contrary to railfan lore, seem to have interest in single car business.  BNSF is by far easiest to deal with, and KCS is a close second.  CN, UP, and CSXT are all kinda there in the middle with CN and CSXT improving and UP slipping.  NS has niches where they are good, but overall they stink on ice and are running traffic away as fast as they can.  But they get a free pass for the Crayola Fleet).  And then there's CP.  The perennial lost ball in tall weeds.

All of this sort of makes my point that if ONE railroad is difficult to make a deal with, the minute you have to introduce a second one, the wheels completely come off.  Look, I don't know all the details here, but IF CSX and NS can't figure out a way to make this an all rail move, then shame on whichever one (or both) is mucking it up.  I fully get competition between railroads. That in and of itself is a GOOD thing, but if it gets in the way of capturing more business for railroads and less for trucks, then the railroads don't deserve ANY of the business.  It's an interconnected network , and requires EVERYONE to see the bigger picture.