Author Topic: Waylaid Caboose  (Read 2213 times)

IndyHog

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Waylaid Caboose
« on: January 30, 2019, 12:11:56 AM »
From an thread on Trainorders regarding a caboose which passed through Indianapolis


This guy recently purchased a customized 'Safety Caboose' from a former CSX employee in NC.   CSX was to ship it from NC to IN where I would move it off their property for use and further restoration privately.  I followed the progress as they shipped it to Indiana and was pleased to catch it in the final phase of the journer.  Chronicled here:  https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,4710401 

Instead of dropping it off in Connersville, IN as they were suposed to, they took it right through Connersville and on a train bound for NC.  With a phone call, I got them to remove it from that train in Corbin, KY so it could be routed back north to IN.  On its way back, they promptly ran it over a derail and put it on the ground, tearing up the under-carriage.  This happened on 1/19/19.   Since that time, no one from the company has called me about this incident, but I have gotten details from other personnel.  Today, I spoke with a Mechanical Dept guy who said they made the decision to scrap it!    My expectation is that they deliver my car to its intended destination in at least as good of a condition as they picked it up in.   I plan to pursue action to get this accomplished, but was wondering if anyone had some inside help to assist in a reversal of that decision?   

I would, of course, like it operable, but the end game plan is to have it stationary off live rail and in a worst case scenario, I would still like the car in Indiana to use for that purpose.   
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 10:03:02 PM by IndyHog »
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SankyInbound

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 05:55:24 AM »
I am sorry to hear that, all I can say is good luck.  I have no contacts with that part of the operation but can only imagine how much difficulty you will have, dealing with the company, repairing, and then moving the caboose to its final destination.  Trucking may be your best bet.  I saw that caboose pass through the Indy area but for the life of me I cannot remember where I was when I saw it.  I was very surprised to see it in such good condition and the fact that it said it was based out of Hamlet seemed odd to me that it was way up here. 

I remember seeing the "One Plan" on the side of the car and wondering...how many plans ago was that??   ::)
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Rick

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2019, 09:18:09 AM »
If itís your caboose and they damaged it, I believe they are responsible for repairing it.  It doesnít belong to csx anymore so I donít see how they can make a decision.  Scrap would have more insight on this. 


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CIND 2254

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2019, 09:38:26 AM »
Iím always amazed that in the age of computers these kind of drivebys happen... How difficult can it be to have a car setout...
Modeling High Hood GP30s on the CERA based in Kokomo circa. 1996-1998.

Rick

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 09:42:31 AM »
Lol, youíd be amazed at how long it takes some things to come through via the computer systems the railroad uses.  Iíve waited over three hours for a consist to show up on the computer after I watched it go by the scanner. 


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Peoria Man

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 09:59:51 AM »
Lol, youíd be amazed at how long it takes some things to come through via the computer systems the railroad uses.  Iíve waited over three hours for a consist to show up on the computer after I watched it go by the scanner. 

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Well, sure, it takes time to load all those punch cards into the machine!   :D

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Rick

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 10:08:07 AM »
Well, sure, it takes time to load all those punch cards into the machine!   :D

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Lol


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rrnut282

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2019, 11:02:35 AM »
I miss punch cards.   8)
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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2019, 11:40:54 AM »
Iím always amazed that in the age of computers these kind of drivebys happen... How difficult can it be to have a car setout...

Odd equipment moves are always a ďpainĒ.  Connersville block rides head end out of Hawthorne. Caboose rides rear per rules and clearance instructions. Throw in it was behind 3000í of military loads, and not surprising it wasnít set off.  Those cars, and caboose, continued right on south at Cincy.  Doesnít excuse why it wasnít done, but seeing this stuff day to day it isnít surprising it wasnít done.  Surprised the blocking nazis in Jacksonville didnít catch a car that had to be overridden at Queensgate.  Theyíre all over Avon and not misrouting cars.

Unfortunate the problem was exasperated by it getting derailed and severely damaged.  The fact it wasnít set off isnít a huge issue, the fact it was damaged is.  Car owner doesnít get charged for every mile the car moves. Csx was essentially moving that car for free once it finished its route and kept going.

scraphauler

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2019, 12:55:22 PM »
The 3000' of naval munitions is what doomed the caboose from setting off.  Somewhere someone decided to let the ordinance run straight thru as a W874 vs J784, so away it went as unit train caboose still attached.  Car owner was able to convince someone to get it set off when at Corbin for crew change. 

Despite the righteous indignation of the legion of arm chair railroaders offering advice and screaming sue sue sue (and wanting Trains to do an exposť), CSXT's liability here is very limited.  AAR Interchange Rules and special conditions in the tariff or contract used for carriage set strict liability limits - If you don't like it, you either don't ship by rail or you pay the $25,000+ addition fee for special train service. 
 

Bob Durnell

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2019, 01:45:03 PM »

Despite the righteous indignation of the legion of arm chair railroaders offering advice and screaming sue sue sue (and wanting Trains to do an exposť), CSXT's liability here is very limited.  AAR Interchange Rules and special conditions in the tariff or contract used for carriage set strict liability limits - If you don't like it, you either don't ship by rail or you pay the $25,000+ addition fee for special train service. 
 

Which tells you about all you need to know why shippers that have a real choice don't usually choose rail.  The idea that you have to pay extra to get what you have every right to reasonably expect in the first place is sad.  The fact that they misrouted the car doesn't concern me other than it probably did a pretty good job of wiping out whatever profit they derived from the move in the place.  As far as wrecking the car however, if CSX (or any other railroad) had any integrity, they would fix the car, send it where it belongs and tear up the bill, not because the have to, (they clearly don't) but because it's the right thing to do.  From a trucking perspective, I never cease to be amazed at how shabby the major railroads treat their customers.  One of the products we haul is ice cream.  If it delivers so much as one degree out of spec on temperature, the load goes in the dumpster , and we cut the customer a check for the loss, and we sure as hell don't charge them to move a load WE ruined.  Simple as that.  If we damage a customer's equipment, we make it right, either by repair or replacement.  We make our customer whole.  We can't afford to do business any other way.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 03:08:13 PM by Bob Durnell »

CIND 2254

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 09:51:19 PM »
Odd equipment moves are always a ďpainĒ.  Connersville block rides head end out of Hawthorne. Caboose rides rear per rules and clearance instructions. Throw in it was behind 3000í of military loads, and not surprising it wasnít set off.  Those cars, and caboose, continued right on south at Cincy.  Doesnít excuse why it wasnít done, but seeing this stuff day to day it isnít surprising it wasnít done. 
It seems like that could just be special instructions, especially with it at the rear of the train. Doesnít seem like it should be that difficult to stop the train and set out one car.
Modeling High Hood GP30s on the CERA based in Kokomo circa. 1996-1998.

Rick

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 10:37:01 PM »
It seems like that could just be special instructions, especially with it at the rear of the train. Doesnít seem like it should be that difficult to stop the train and set out one car.
Rule of thumb is 1 hour if things go well.  Obviously can be quicker or longer for various reasons. 


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CSX_CO

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2019, 11:01:35 PM »
It seems like that could just be special instructions, especially with it at the rear of the train. Doesnít seem like it should be that difficult to stop the train and set out one car.

Again, not justifying why it didnít happen, but a lot of factors to say why it didnít.  Would have been ďextraĒ move at Connersville after setting off the head end.  Conductor would have to walk to the head end.    Was 360-361 in the picture? Any G trains? Other locals?  The local is a turn job, would they have time to make it back to Queensgate with the extra move. So,  A lot of factors of why it didnít happen.  Iím sure the fact it was behind 3000í of military loads probably factored in to getting the train across the road, and why it wasnít set off.

hytwr1

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2019, 11:08:49 PM »
Sorry to hear about the problems. I don't subscribe to TO so had no idea it was floating around the system or would have watched for it.

Sanky may have hit on why it kept going too. Did it say something on the side about being assigned to Hamlet? What do the tags say?

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SankyInbound

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2019, 12:03:12 AM »
If you canít stop a defense train in mid-trip on the main to facilitate setting out a single rear end car, then why put the car on the back of the defense train in the first place?  However, I am not surprised... 

The new methods sure seem to make railroading out to be a lot harder than it should...
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scraphauler

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2019, 12:18:26 AM »
If you canít stop a defense train in mid-trip on the main to facilitate setting out a single rear end car, then why put the car on the back of the defense train in the first place?  However, I am not surprised... 

The new methods sure seem to make railroading out to be a lot harder than it should...

If you look at the tracing, it left Hawthorne on J784 but turned into W847 enroute.  That tells me it was a game time/post departure decision to drop the local traffic and run stictly the boom booms.  Someone either simply forgot the caboose or decided to highball it.

As for other questions, cab was in a special Hamlet Safety paint scheme and still carried CSXT reporting marks. No external indication it was not a CSX car.  As for location, itís in Winchester KY - local crew that brought it up from Corbin shoved it and another car over a derail, destroying steps and everything under car.

crblue

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2019, 05:40:54 AM »
...then why put the car on the back of the defense train in the first place?
It was stated earlier in this thread "Caboose rides rear per rules and clearance instructions."

The question in my mind is that if the caboose itself is travelling as revenue freight and not as a traditional caboose, is it still subject to caboose handling rules? Other than the short length, was is different about how a caboose is handled in a train compared to a small covered hopper or small tank car?

hytwr1

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2019, 08:36:36 AM »
Tracing that car number, it still carries CSXT reporting marksand aei tags. So somebody In mechanical sees it as company property. 

What is potio KY? It shows bad ordered there. Is that Winchester?

Pin Lifter

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Re: Waylaid Caboose
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2019, 09:12:01 AM »
Tracing that car number, it still carries CSXT reporting marksand aei tags. So somebody In mechanical sees it as company property. 

What is potio KY? It shows bad ordered there. Is that Winchester?
Yes, Patio yard is in Winchester KY.