Author Topic: NKP Trail Updates  (Read 25412 times)

DUPER

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2018, 04:17:59 PM »
Surely you must be kidding. Outweighs any crime that may happen? Just tell that to the young ladys family who was recently sexually assaulted, or the business owner in Broad Ripple who was robbed just last week and the trail used as a getaway route (this is very common). Perhaps you, as I have, should speak to adjacent property owners and businesses? They will tell you crime is prolific and a MAJOR problem, backyard sheds broken into regularly, bike's stolen, trespassing, liter in everyone's back yard to name but a few. Two guys were assaulted near 61st just a couple months ago. Property values going up? NOPE..not according to the people I've spoke with as they actually went down since nobody wants a trail with complete and total strangers" stumbling around in our backyards at all hours of the day and night". I would urge you to do a search on the net on Monon crime problems. Page after page of nothing but crime. And guess what? Crimes were NONEXISTENT before the trail.

This is consistent with how real estate values tend to work.  Residences on trails like this lose their value....not necessarily the residences near them....but ON them.  People from various areas use them for simple recreation, or loitering.  They really have no other purpose.  I doubt that many people really want a lot of transient folks from other neighborhoods walking along their property line.

IMO, everybody has hobbies.  I think they should fund them themselves.  Golfers, trail walkers, cyclists, all groups should simply find like minded people and pool their money together.  Buy the land, hire construction companies, build what they need to walk on or ride on.  Then pay to maintain it. Pay the real estate taxes annually.  Charge a fee to use it.  Pay security guards to kick people off who don't pay. Golfers have to do this to play golf.  Why can't walkers and cyclists.  Why do cyclists get use the real estate that was built for cars?

Not to get political, but I think politicians are enamored with the idea of their city being elite and progressive the more it can accommodate environmentally friendly activities, I guess.  I don't think they think about it much.  It seems like they just want to have them.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 04:38:33 PM by DUPER »

CIND 2254

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2018, 06:18:30 PM »
i think that trails have a place, and that is privately purchased and maintained. Until roads are in excellent shape and schools are fully funded the government has no business supporting something solely recreational like a trail.
Modeling High Hood GP30s on the CERA based in Kokomo circa. 1996-1998.

scraphauler

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2018, 08:56:55 PM »
i think that trails have a place, and that is privately purchased and maintained. Until roads are in excellent shape and schools are fully funded the government has no business supporting something solely recreational like a trail.

Or a tourist railroad.......donning my flame proof underroos
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xgap

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2018, 10:39:50 PM »
I'm old enough to live the time when county government's concern was education and roads. New Albany's extensive bike lanes are still growing over the wishes of the voters. My 3 cross town trips in four days netted 2 bikes.

nhensley

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2018, 09:42:50 AM »
I would argue that the bike trails are a serious amenity that draw younger people to neighborhoods.  I ride the Monon regularly and the houses along it seem to be doing just fine.  There is very little graffiti along the trail, and the murals appear almost sacred as they do not seem to be tagged at all.  You see all sorts of people (women riding and running alone for example) on the Southern-most stretch of the Monon that likely would never venture into that part of town otherwise.  Also, it could be argued that many businesses along the bike trail also benefit.  A trail in the Marion county portion of the line would provide for a nice linkage from the far northeast side neighborhoods to the Monon and downtown. 

That said, I would much rather see grain (or any kind of) trains rolling through downtown Fishers!!!!

DUPER

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2018, 03:36:35 PM »
I would argue that the bike trails are a serious amenity that draw younger people to neighborhoods.  I ride the Monon regularly and the houses along it seem to be doing just fine.  There is very little graffiti along the trail, and the murals appear almost sacred as they do not seem to be tagged at all.  You see all sorts of people (women riding and running alone for example) on the Southern-most stretch of the Monon that likely would never venture into that part of town otherwise.  Also, it could be argued that many businesses along the bike trail also benefit.  A trail in the Marion county portion of the line would provide for a nice linkage from the far northeast side neighborhoods to the Monon and downtown. 

That said, I would much rather see grain (or any kind of) trains rolling through downtown Fishers!!!!

Yeah, overall southern Hamilton/ northern Marion County isn't exactly a high crime area.

Its when the supporters throw out stats like, say, the trail gets used by 30,000 people per month.  Is that 30,000 different people or 3,000 people using it 10 times?  I tend to think these trails are used by a limited number of people relative to the number being asked to pay for it. 

I guess we could say the same thing about Parks, but I think parks can be used for different things  Trails seem to be limited to folks who want to either walk, jog, or cycle. 

No biggie.  I'm not against trails, as long as the discussion at the county level is fair.

Dschro

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2018, 08:14:50 PM »
You are indeed correct about the crime problem.  It is derived solely by each trail's proximity to undesirable neighborhoods.  I have ridden and run on trails in Ohio, Missouri, Wisconsin, Michigan and Indiana.  The problem is the same everywhere.  If you put a trail in or adjacent to a questionable neighborhood you will have problems.  If you don't, you won't!

Hemigray 42

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2018, 12:46:12 AM »
As it goes for crime on trails that go through rough neighborhoods that has the thought that most users do not carry and tend to either carry expensive phones , sums of money and bikesthat are easy to sell. Thinking of putting trail through these area will help in development is incorrect as Abondoned houses and crime ridden area are hard to fix and where this line is south of 38th street get dicey further south you go . One trail enough with Monon two stretches it thin on funds .

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trafficcritic

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2018, 09:43:20 AM »
Surely you must be kidding. Outweighs any crime that may happen? Just tell that to the young ladys family who was recently sexually assaulted, or the business owner in Broad Ripple who was robbed just last week and the trail used as a getaway route (this is very common). Perhaps you, as I have, should speak to adjacent property owners and businesses? They will tell you crime is prolific and a MAJOR problem, backyard sheds broken into regularly, bike's stolen, trespassing, liter in everyone's back yard to name but a few. Two guys were assaulted near 61st just a couple months ago. Property values going up? NOPE..not according to the people I've spoke with as they actually went down since nobody wants a trail with complete and total strangers" stumbling around in our backyards at all hours of the day and night". I would urge you to do a search on the net on Monon crime problems. Page after page of nothing but crime. And guess what? Crimes were NONEXISTENT before the trail.

Quote from: trainmaster53
And to add to that, Show me where Trails make Money. They don't even Collect any Taxes on them either. A waste of Tax Dollars that we Fund.

Well then by your logic we might as well just get rid of state parks, city parks, playgrounds, anything that just takes up space and has greenery, anything not turning a profit, it's just a tax dollar burden. We don't need any of that crap because rapes and crime can take place there too. It's just a tax drain, right?  Let's pave them all over and put in more roads and businesses. I'm sure the free market will come in and solve the crime problem and everything else. Because that's what the free market does.  Oh and the litter problem, yep, that's exclusive to trails. There's never any garbage along our roads and highways. Look how clean those roads are. Mattresses, tires, entire bags of rubbish strewn along rail-trails, but trails are the problem here, only trails bring crime and litter.


trainmaster53

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2018, 06:40:40 PM »
It might be different if more people used the Trails. But any more most People do not want a Trail in there back yard. People using the Monon Trail has declined over the years from what I have heard.


Huckleberry

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2018, 10:13:26 AM »
It might be different if more people used the Trails. But any more most People do not want a Trail in there back yard. People using the Monon Trail has declined over the years from what I have heard.

If that were true, the houses listed for sale on Zillow in Indianapolis near the Monon Trail would probably avoid mentioning it. However, whether it's a $2 million dollar estate on Pennsylvania Avenue or a $140,000 house on Central Avenue, they all use the "popular Monon Trail" to market their home.

https://www.zillow.com/indianapolis-in/access-to-monon-trail_att/

Same is true for homes for sale in Carmel near the Monon Trail:

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Carmel-IN/pmf,pf_pt/17309_rid/monon-trail-_att/globalrelevanceex_sort/40.077283,-85.947762,39.851775,-86.316834_rect/11_zm/

Yes, there will be some people who don't want a trail in their backyard. But real estate sales prove otherwise. And the continued investment by cities to build and expand trails is further proof.


AlcoGuy

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2018, 01:22:48 PM »
Again,the key is homes NEAR a rail trail, as opposed to those ON the trail. Very different. Interesting too how many are for sale ON a trail versus NEAR one. What distance from the trail is "near"?

NS7112

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2018, 10:07:36 PM »
This is consistent with how real estate values tend to work.  Residences on trails like this lose their value....not necessarily the residences near them....but ON them.  People from various areas use them for simple recreation, or loitering.  They really have no other purpose.  I doubt that many people really want a lot of transient folks from other neighborhoods walking along their property line.

IMO, everybody has hobbies.  I think they should fund them themselves.  Golfers, trail walkers, cyclists, all groups should simply find like minded people and pool their money together.  Buy the land, hire construction companies, build what they need to walk on or ride on.  Then pay to maintain it. Pay the real estate taxes annually.  Charge a fee to use it.  Pay security guards to kick people off who don't pay. Golfers have to do this to play golf.  Why can't walkers and cyclists.  Why do cyclists get use the real estate that was built for cars?

Not to get political, but I think politicians are enamored with the idea of their city being elite and progressive the more it can accommodate environmentally friendly activities, I guess.  I don't think they think about it much.  It seems like they just want to have them.
Lol...says the guy that’s probably never had kids but b**ches he has to pay taxes for schools...

blue2golf

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2018, 09:02:48 PM »
You are indeed correct about the crime problem.  It is derived solely by each trail's proximity to undesirable neighborhoods.  I have ridden and run on trails in Ohio, Missouri, Wisconsin, Michigan and Indiana.  The problem is the same everywhere.  If you put a trail in or adjacent to a questionable neighborhood you will have problems.  If you don't, you won't!

You have to put the trails where the rails used to go.  As we all know, the ROWs were the original superhighways and utilize some of the best routes to get from one place to another and most have been in place a century or more.

And yes, plenty of them run through the older, rougher parts of town but remember, the rails generally came first and when the neighborhoods were built, they weren't rough at all. 

Here in Evansville they are currently converting the old Southern/HiRail spur along south US41 into the HiRail Trail.  Some of the nearby areas are questionable but the railroad laid out and leveled the route decades ago, the city is merely converting it into something useful again.  I wish them well and hope the locals put it good use.

 
No train expert here fellas, just your average history buff...

laker2555

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2018, 10:24:39 AM »
The Save the Nickel Plate rally happened today at the Statehouse.  (I have no idea why they are sideways, but the site doesn't let me post directly from my phone).

pabrankle

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2018, 02:55:38 PM »
Article from IBJ - 09/13/2018

A not-for-profit group is taking legal action against Fishers, Noblesville and Hamilton County, saying officials violated Indiana’s Open Door law when making decisions regarding the future of the Nickel Plate Railroad corridor.

Save the Nickel Plate Inc., which said it would file a suit on Thursday, was founded last year with the goal of preserving the Nickel Plate Railroad line as a transportation corridor after Hamilton County leaders announced plans to railbank the 37.5-mile corridor through Fishers and Noblesville to build a pedestrian trail.

Last month, Save the Nickel Plate leaders brought their fight to state lawmakers, and now, they're filing a lawsuit in Hamilton County against the Fishers Board of Public Works and Safety, Noblesville Board of Public Works and Safety, and the Hamilton County Commissioners.

Their lawsuit accuses the boards of violated Indiana’s Open Door public-access law during meetings held last summer and as recently as this week.

Supporters of Save the Train gathered Thursday morning at the Statehouse, where the organization announced its lawsuit.

Save the Nickel Plate said the government boards first violated Indiana’s Open Door Law on July 31, 2017, during an joint meeting to approve resolutions to railbank the railroad. The notices posted for the meeting did not state what resolutions would be discussed or that residents affected or interested in the project would be able to speak, the lawsuit states.

And, earlier this week, the Fishers Board of Public Works and Safety approved two contracts with firms that will draft plans for the pedestrian trail from 96th Street to 146th Street through Fishers.

Fishers will pay Columbus, Ohio-based architecture company NBBJ up to $163,000, including $17,000 for expenses such as travel, to handle architecture and design, and Indianapolis-based EX2 Partners will be paid $112,000 to handle strategic consulting, including branding and communication with the public.

During the meeting, the board did not allow residents affected by or interested in the decision to speak, the lawsuit states. The board’s chairman denied a member of the public’s request to speak, the plaintiff said.

story continues below

Save the Nickel Plate has asked a judge to rule the boards violated the law and to void any decisions made during those meetings.

The plaintiff also asks to be awarded attorneys’ fees, court costs and other litigation expenses.

Terry Tolliver, the attorney representing Save the Nickel Plate, said state law requires meeting notices to state the date of a public meeting and identify any resolutions that will be considered.

Tolliver, of counsel with Indianapolis law firm Brattain Minnix Garcia, said public officials must allow residents to speak at those hearings when they authorize changes to a public-way crossings, railways, right-of-ways and public places.

Logan Day, spokesperson for Save the Nickle Plate, said residents should be the voice for the future of the railway, not the elected leaders.

“We’re not hear to argue the value of trails today but rather the importance of good government,” he said. “Government is the servant of their people, not their masters.”

In a statement to IBJ, Fishers Mayor Scott Fadness said trail opponents are on the wrong track with their legal tactics.

“Once again, this is another desperate attempt by Logan Day and the train advocates to file another frivolous lawsuit grounded in false accusations and uninformed Public Access laws," Fadness said. "We remain undeterred at bringing a world-class amenity via the Nickel Plate Trail to our community. We will quickly seek dismissal of this frivolous lawsuit.”

BourdonBoy

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2018, 03:02:21 PM »
The Save the Nickel Plate rally happened today at the Statehouse.  (I have no idea why they are sideways, but the site doesn't let me post directly from my phone).

It's unfortunate they were having trouble with the sound system at the beginning of the conference.  Luckily they finally got it fixed.  I'll be curious to see what news coverage there will be of the event.

scraphauler

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2018, 03:12:08 PM »
I saw a teaser post on Facebook yesterday that they where going to have a BIG announcement at the rally today.  I take it that announcement is yet another lawsuit? 

Yawn
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BourdonBoy

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Re: NKP Trail Updates
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2018, 03:52:51 PM »
Yes, as quoted above by pabrankle from the article in today's IBJ.  Additionally, Mike Corbett (editor & publisher of the Hamilton County Business Magazine), who is strongly pro-railroad, is officially running for Mayor of Noblesville.

http://mikecorbettformayor.com/the-nickel-plate-railroad/