NKP Trail Updates

[danielm75]

Indianapolis leaders/leadership have lost any foresight, and any other points of priority, decades ago. And, it's also why Indianapolis has the world's WORST public transit system.

[CSX_CO]

Indianapolis leaders/leadership have lost any foresight, and any other points of priority, decades ago. And, it's also why Indianapolis has the world's WORST public transit system.

Granted, it’s been years since I’ve driven in metro Indy during “Rush Hour” but when I did, it was never that bad.

Historically, been bad on I-69 between 465 and 37.  Realistically, how many people would the IMC have taken off the roads? Would have had to be people that trains would have been more convenient to use, vs driving.  Indy doesn’t have a job centric downtown, or any suburb with a bevy of jobs.  So, you’re going to need a massive mass transit network to even make people think of using mass transit.  Indy isn’t New York or Chicago with a concentrated business district, and people living 30 to 40 miles away in their bedroom communities.

[NS7112]

Seems like Indy now has the plans for their part of the NKP Trail:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/2019/05/28/indianapolis-plans-trail-along-defunct-state-fair-train-route/3769753002/

Said it a year or more ago they'd jump on board..my reply to IndyHog on 5/13/18 lol...

Quote from: IndyHog on May 13, 2018, 09:57:19 AM
From what I understand, the trail will end at the Marion Co line. Any plans to convert the part in Marion Co to a trail or just let it deteriorate back to nature?

Give em time.....they'll eventually come around    Especially when they see the amount of development and people using it and they're missing out on the pie.  I could easily see the businesses in the 82nd area complaining to extend the trail down to them....time will tell!!

[NS7112]

Granted, it’s been years since I’ve driven in metro Indy during “Rush Hour” but when I did, it was never that bad.

Historically, been bad on I-69 between 465 and 37.  Realistically, how many people would the IMC have taken off the roads? Would have had to be people that trains would have been more convenient to use, vs driving.  Indy doesn’t have a job centric downtown, or any suburb with a bevy of jobs.  So, you’re going to need a massive mass transit network to even make people think of using mass transit.  Indy isn’t New York or Chicago with a concentrated business district, and people living 30 to 40 miles away in their bedroom communities.

Agree 100%. Not dense enough for it to be feasible. Fishers and Noblesville are too close to downtown. 

As for 465/69.  That only backs up because its a 1970's design based on #'s from then.  Badly needs a flyover ramp from eb 465 to nb 69.  Trucks slow down to 25mph to make that cloverleaf merge with the current design which just jacks all the traffic up...

[Wema]

Agree 100%. Not dense enough for it to be feasible. Fishers and Noblesville are too close to downtown. 

As for 465/69.  That only backs up because its a 1970's design based on #'s from then.  Badly needs a flyover ramp from eb 465 to nb 69.  Trucks slow down to 25mph to make that cloverleaf merge with the current design which just jacks all the traffic up...

The state seems to have read your mind: https://www.in.gov/indot/3654.htm

[Wema]

Seems Noblesville is a ways out yet to build their part of the NKP Trail:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/2019/05/30/nickel-plate-trail-noblesville-can-wait-likely-new-mayor-says/3754018002/

[BourdonBoy]

Badly needs a flyover ramp from eb 465 to nb 69.

A flyover is also needed at the North Split of 70/65 downtown. The entire cause of traffic congestion there during rush hour is the volume of traffic entering 65 S to 70 E from Delaware St having to quickly merge left across at least 2 lanes, crossing the flow of 65 S traffic needing to get over to the 2 right lanes in order to remain on 65 S.

The same problem happens in the morning at the South Split, where 70 E traffic needs to merge right in order to continue on 70, crossing all the 65 N traffic needing to merge left in order to continue on 65.

In both cases, if if there is ANYTHING as minimal as a single disabled vehicle, let alone any kind of accident, God help you. When that happens (as it did this morning on 65 S to 70 E), everything grinds to a crawl or a stop.

I'm sure those of you who regularly drive 465 during the rush hours have similar stories and frustrations.

Indy certainly isn't Chicago, Boston, etc. in terms of traffic clogs, but it's far from the picnic it used to be even 20 years ago. Probably doesn't help that nowadays many more people are getting many more deliveries to their doors much more frequently (thanks, Amazon).

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[Ralph]

A flyover is also needed at the North Split of 70/65 downtown. The entire cause of traffic congestion there during rush hour is the volume of traffic entering 65 S to 70 E from Delaware St having to quickly merge left across at least 2 lanes, crossing the flow of 65 S traffic needing to get over to the 2 right lanes in order to remain on 65 S.

Indot already has a plan to eliminate this "weaving" on I65 across the north side of downtown Indy. The diagram is somewhere on their website. It involves, as I recall, eliminating the entrance to SB 65 from Delaware, the exit from NB 65 to Pennsylvania and grade separating I70 EB and I65 NB at the north split so the two no longer have to weave between the south and north splits.

The state seems to have read your mind: https://www.in.gov/indot/3654.htm

As for 465/69.  That only backs up because its a 1970's design based on #'s from then.  Badly needs a flyover ramp from eb 465 to nb 69.

About 10 years ago INDOT met with HHPA (who invited me to the meeting) under I465 on the railroad tracks to discuss alternative A on that particular ramp. The ramp would have eliminated HHPA's very valuable billboard on the inside of 465 beside the railroad to say nothing of being within feet of the apartment building there. HHPA's only concern was replacing the revenue lost if the billboard went away.

I thought that plan went away about 4 years ago due to its expense and that they had found a less expensive plan.

[NS7112]

Indot already has a plan to eliminate this "weaving" on I65 across the north side of downtown Indy. The diagram is somewhere on their website. It involves, as I recall, eliminating the entrance to SB 65 from Delaware, the exit from NB 65 to Pennsylvania and grade separating I70 EB and I65 NB at the north split so the two no longer have to weave between the south and north splits.
About 10 years ago INDOT met with HHPA (who invited me to the meeting) under I465 on the railroad tracks to discuss alternative A on that particular ramp. The ramp would have eliminated HHPA's very valuable billboard on the inside of 465 beside the railroad to say nothing of being within feet of the apartment building there. HHPA's only concern was replacing the revenue lost if the billboard went away.

I thought that plan went away about 4 years ago due to its expense and that they had found a less expensive plan.

 

Interesting.  I didn't know HHPA got the revenue from that billboard..

[Ralph]

Interesting.  I didn't know HHPA got the revenue from that billboard..

Well, the revenue, based, apparently, on "impressions" - how many people are seeing it - initially goes to the advertising company whose name appears on the billboard but that company pays a percentage in rent to HHPA. That location is very valuable. HHPA also collects on a billboard outside of 465 at the same area and another just north of 82nd Street. (Funny story about that one below.) All are within the railroad right-of-way. Another location was beside the ramp from westbound I70 to northbound I65 downtown. That billboard was erected in violation of an ordinance controlling billboards downtown (or some such) and was ordered removed at the ad company's expense but - there went HHPA's share of that one.

Don't remember the year but I was serving as brakeman on the southward locomotive on opening day of FairTrain. Even before 87th Street on the first run the engineer and I could both see something in the right-of-way at 465. He slowed as he approached and we saw it was the vinyl off the billboard. (Haven't used paper in ages - it's now usually one giant piece of vinyl printed with the ad.) A guy was up on the billboard and had dropped the old vinyl on the track while he installed a new one. Engineer blew the horn to try to get the guy's attention but he was too close to traffic or felt it best to ignore us. I balled up the old sign as best I could and pulled it off into the bushes so we could continue.

[Wema]

Indot already has a plan to eliminate this "weaving" on I65 across the north side of downtown Indy. The diagram is somewhere on their website. It involves, as I recall, eliminating the entrance to SB 65 from Delaware, the exit from NB 65 to Pennsylvania and grade separating I70 EB and I65 NB at the north split so the two no longer have to weave between the south and north splits.

Ah yes, the North Split project that will really throw a wrench in traffic while its being done: https://northsplit.com/project-overview/ 

[Ralph]

Ah yes, the North Split project that will really throw a wrench in traffic while its being done: https://northsplit.com/project-overview/ 

And being watched carefully by area residents who do not want ANY expansion of the footprint of the interstate in that area.

[Hemigray 42]

I still think it's funny that if you read HHPA webpage the state they manage 37 miles of rail which as a port authority should mean saving the line for revenue not bike trail. There is nothing about Indy or fishers plans to do trail.My question is what's HHPA true purpose as they can't even maintain the property they have yet they say they do online.

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[nhensley]

Wondering how this type of thing is done.  In order to build the trail, will the HHPA grant the City of Indianapolis an easement for the Marion County portion of the ROW?

[IndyHog]

I would imagine the segment would have to be railbanked much like the Fisher's section

[Hemigray 42]

Still curious how STB ruling will effect this if USRAIL gets permission to buy the line ? If that does happens that will be  funny to watch all of these players reactions to how trail provisions state if 3rd party can demonstrate funds to buy let alone their little bike trail dreams.

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[CSX_CO]

Still curious how STB ruling will effect this if USRAIL gets permission to buy the line ? If that does happens that will be  funny to watch all of these players reactions to how trail provisions state if 3rd party can demonstrate funds to buy let alone their little bike trail dreams.

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Given how on point the Fishers and Noblesville legal counsel has been with the STB so far, going to bet they have the feeling/know that the STB won’t side with US Rail.

[Ralph]

Ah yes, the North Split project that will really throw a wrench in traffic while its being done: https://northsplit.com/project-overview/ 

Did anyone check the website that Wema referenced? Did you notice that INDOT has put back in either the NKP or Monon line down the east side of the interstates?

[monon_rr]

Did anyone check the website that Wema referenced? Did you notice that INDOT has put back in either the NKP or Monon line down the east side of the interstates?

I noticed that as well - assuming it is the NKP as the Monon Trail is indicated differently. Probably just because it is technically still rail.

[CSX_CO]

Did anyone check the website that Wema referenced? Did you notice that INDOT has put back in either the NKP or Monon line down the east side of the interstates?

Is the NKP from the old NE Belt connection to the former site of the Mass Ave tower officially abandoned?

Bridge is gone, obviously.  That said, everyone has said they have plans for running direct to Union Station.  If it’s abandoned, that throws a wrench in those plans.

If it isn’t, then despite no tracks, doesn’t INDOT have to maintain the bridge over the tracks at a sufficient height to clear the tracks should they be reinstalled?