Author Topic: ITM's Move Into Logansport  (Read 19013 times)

CSX_CO

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #180 on: January 12, 2019, 06:43:19 PM »
With Ed Ellis ventures supposedly belly up, wonder how long until his equipment will be sold off?  Will there even be a trainset to rent?

central1751

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #181 on: January 12, 2019, 10:30:58 PM »
Even though its "static" for now. I personally say anything is on the table if the city can make $$$$ from it.  The rented trains itm ran were quite popular. Many other festivals in downtown that a train ride or dinner train could make money.

CSX_CO

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #182 on: January 13, 2019, 12:59:05 AM »
Even though its "static" for now. I personally say anything is on the table if the city can make $$$$ from it.  The rented trains itm ran were quite popular. Many other festivals in downtown that a train ride or dinner train could make money.

So, you’re conceivably going to have Kokomo, competing with ITM, and competing with the NKP Express.  All within ~30 miles away from each other?  Seems like an over saturation of the market.

scraphauler

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #183 on: January 13, 2019, 12:37:16 PM »
Something to keep in mind - right now with G&W and previously with USRP, the WSRY is a COMMON CARRIER who's stock is owned by Kokomo Grain.  They contract out portions of their operation to G&W and previously USRP.  It's their railroad, G&W (and previously USRP) have to do what they tell them to do.  THAT IS CHANGING.  Remember the STB filing (current not available due to Gov shutdown).  It was for the TP&W to assume common carrier obligations.  WSRY ceases to exists as a common carrier - track from Van to Binghurst and 18TH Street to Kokomo would be TP&W no different that the rest of the TPW in Logansport.

Unless Kokomo Grain specifically spells out in the lease that G&W MUST deal with ITM or the City of Kokomo, there is NO WAY the can demand or required TPW cooperation.  I have no first hand knowledge of the agreement between KG and GW - I can you tell that based on information from another carrier that was looking at the WSRY, there was no provisions to requite dealing with excursion operators.

Landload/common carrier relations have very specific and strict roles and repsonsibiliuties.   Look at it this way, Kokomo Grain leasing their property to the TP&W is no differenct that the City of Cincinnati leasing their property to NS.   As you may be aware, the NS main line from Cincinnati to Chattanooga belongs to the Cincinnati Southern Railway.   Cincinnati Southern is not a common carrier - they lease their property to Norfolk Sothern who holds all common carrier responsibility, etc.   The City of Cincinnati as ower of Cincinnati Southern can not require, demand, or otherwise influence Norfolk Southern to do anything outside the scope of their lease agreeement.  Therefore, the City can not tell NS you WILL deal with the Bluegrass Railroad Museum and let them run an excursion train between Lexington and Cincinnati. 

In short, ITM better be able to play nice with G&W.  There are a lot of G&W lines that host tourist operations, dinner trains, excursions, etc., so obviously they are not opposed to it.  But, where they do operate, the operators are first class well run organizations that can live up to the standards G&W requires, and don't have a rocky litigious background.  If ITM can step up their game and play nice with TPW, there's a very good chance for Logansport to become a nice excursion hub. 

Wema

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #184 on: February 13, 2019, 09:22:12 PM »

Lt._Dave

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #185 on: February 19, 2019, 11:01:04 AM »
Good Morning All,

Yesterday I was in Noblesville and decided to drop by the park to see the old ITM site.  I was amazed at how much equipment was still there.  First picture is just an overview from one direction.  In the boxcar picture it can't be seen very well but there appears to be boxes of materials open to the weather.  Does anyone know if that is what this is?  Also it appeared there is security on site and a large box truck was there possibly loading something.

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Lt._Dave

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #186 on: February 19, 2019, 11:01:37 AM »
Second picture, could not get it on the first message for some reason.

danielm75

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #187 on: February 19, 2019, 02:17:08 PM »
Wasn't all of ITM's collection supposed to have been out of Forest Park by sometime last year?

Trainman19

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #188 on: February 19, 2019, 03:49:11 PM »
Wasn't all of ITM's collection supposed to have been out of Forest Park by sometime last year?

It is... well, what isn't being held captive, waiting for Noblesville to let the third parties responsible for removing them get them out.
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central1751

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #189 on: February 20, 2019, 11:31:35 AM »
Supposably whats left inside the fence is no longer owned by ITM.  My biggest worries are the diesels with 426 and the F units at the top of the list. Espically with US rail out of the picture as I believe they were joint owner listed(Of the diesels along with MTO, whoever/whatever that entitiy is) on the PDF file that was posted online about who got what.  I suspect nothing will move now till we get thru the spring thaw and the ground firms back up. Lots of work to do and a line to pay for up in Logansport before they can even think about moving the Budd coaches up from the storage location in southern Indiana.  I still have my own personal doubts of this group being succesful in rebooting themselves.  But I pray for the best for them.  Just so many unknowns and nobody is really talking about how the group will move forward in Logansport.  A formal plan announced at a press conference, starting of fund raising and crowd funding ect.  Now would be the time to get the ball rolling to move past the last few years "dumpster fire" they have endured.  Time to move past that and work for the future, openly to the public.

JasonA

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #190 on: February 20, 2019, 06:23:57 PM »
I have heard that none of the water was drained from the locos in Noblesville and there is freeze damage.  Not sure of the extent, but it did happen.

DRLOCO

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #191 on: February 20, 2019, 07:42:32 PM »
Regarding the "storage" boxcars, there were stacks and stacks of information, blueprints, timetables, newspapers and magazines in there.  I was told that when Conrail vacated Union Station, the files and paperwork went into these cars...that's all ruined now.
When I was there during the "evacuation" there was so much stuff in that car (and it looked like it had been ransacked) you couldn't get in without climbing all over boxes  of paper--blueprints, a lot of magazines, timetables from around the world both public and employee ( i saw one from the 1970's queensland, australia ). It was so sad I had to just get out of there, knowing that all that stuff was going to be ruined by the elements and neglect.
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indyspy

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #192 on: February 25, 2019, 01:48:21 PM »
https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2019-03245.pdf

Logansport  and Eel  River  Railroad  Short  Line,  Inc filing

Nothing to big, just an exemption for some reporting stuff while they sell the line
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pabrankle

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #193 on: March 05, 2019, 04:30:33 PM »

Indiana Transportation Museum close on purchase of railroad



LOGANSPORT, Ind. — The displaced Indiana Transportation Museum may soon have a new home. According to a notice published in the Federal Register, the Logansport & Eel River Railroad is seeking a waivers for a requirement to put a section of out-of-service track back into service. The Federal Railroad Administration filing says the railroad, which currently exists in name only, is seeking the relief as part of a purchase proceeding with the Indiana Transportation Museum, which has already made a down payment on 1.6 miles of track.

ITM Acting Chairman Les McConnell confirmed the purchase proceeding to Trains News Wire. McConnell says ITM, which was evicted in July 2018 from its home of more than 50 years in Noblesville, Ind., is hoping the short line will be a suitable home for the museum’s equipment, which itself is in jeopardy following the eviction in Noblesville. McConnell says the museum was forced to sell or scrap equipment in the fallout from the eviction, and he hopes the short line in Logansport will help preserved the museum’s identity and its equipment.

“It’s all survival,” McConnell says.

According to the filing, the Logansport & Eel River Railroad is seeking relief from federal requirements regarding signage and notices at six grade crossings on the line and notices that the rail line in question is once again back in service. The railroad is also seeking an answer regarding whom — the Logansport & Eel River or connecting railroad Toledo, Peoria & Western, a Genesee & Wyoming company — is responsible for replacing a switch which used to connect the short line to the TP&W. Logansport & Eel River is arguing that the switch was removed without permission and TP&W wants $86,500 for a new switch. In the filing, Logansport & Eel River states the railroad is ready to re-install signage once a decision is made about the responsibility for the switch.

ITM was evicted as part of a long and complicated battle between the museum and the City of Noblesville. The museum operated on 35 miles of isolated track, which it did not own. Following the court-ordered eviction, the city, McConnell says, still has some pieces of ITM rolling stock on its property, although some equipment has been sold or moved to other locations by truck. McConnell says with the purchase of the Logansport & Eel River trackage, the museum can own its own trackage for the first time and become more secure.

“We were trying to find a place to go, to own our own railroad,” McConnell says recalling how ITM came to be in contact with the short line. “We don’t want to be caretakers anymore.”

McConnell says he is confident a deal can be reached with short line for the acquisition of the trackage within the next two weeks. No timeline is available to say whether the request to the FRA will be heard.


Trainman19

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #194 on: March 05, 2019, 04:55:29 PM »
I wish to know where you got this article.
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pabrankle

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #195 on: March 05, 2019, 05:01:47 PM »
trainsmag.com

Trainman19

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #196 on: March 05, 2019, 05:09:18 PM »
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central1751

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #197 on: March 21, 2019, 04:46:51 PM »
Any new news on the happenings and any progress if any?  Lots of important stuff still interned at Forest Park that needs to be removed and from all outward apperances there will be no Easter Bunny express this year.   The train set is sitting in the siding just west of 931 in Kokomo(next to Menards). Good place to leave it to be vandalized IMHO.   Probably to wet to heavy haul anything out of Noblesville yet and plenty of track work needing done in Logansport before equipment can be moved in.  Sounds like they have gone from one pickle to another. Sure wish this group had one cent of knowledge how to crowd fund and be upfront with thier challenges going forward.  Still wishing them the best though.     Mike

Trainman19

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #198 on: March 21, 2019, 06:04:21 PM »
Any new news on the happenings and any progress if any?  Lots of important stuff still interned at Forest Park that needs to be removed and from all outward apperances there will be no Easter Bunny express this year.   The train set is sitting in the siding just west of 931 in Kokomo(next to Menards). Good place to leave it to be vandalized IMHO.   Probably to wet to heavy haul anything out of Noblesville yet and plenty of track work needing done in Logansport before equipment can be moved in.  Sounds like they have gone from one pickle to another. Sure wish this group had one cent of knowledge how to crowd fund and be upfront with thier challenges going forward.  Still wishing them the best though.     Mike

We (the museum, as a whole) couldn't leave the train at KG or along Davis Road, anymore, with G&W in the picture on the WSRY. The Menard's siding was the best option, at the time, since 18th Street Yard, in Logansport, is now being fully used by G&W, with their pick-up of the the WSRY operations.  As for what's still at Forest Park, I can't say for sure.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 08:48:54 PM by Trainman19 »
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central1751

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Re: ITM's Move Into Logansport
« Reply #199 on: March 21, 2019, 07:20:14 PM »
I figured that was why the trainset was stored there, not even technically theirs and its future(ownership wise) is uncertain right now I believe.  If I remember correctly from that PDF file/list that was out after the fire sale, the other main road diesels were a USRail/MTO split ownership type listing, which is concerning since USRail is all but no more.  The remaining diesels and the stuff the City of Kokomo was listed as buying is what I am watching since none of it has moved anywhere, along with is there any damage to the prime movers in the diesels.  I find it hard to believe they were left with water in them. Unless someone really was going for the "scorched earth" effect as they left. But then the unis were stored long before the final axe fell on being evicted from the park.  If I remember right, the big diesels were parked well before that and should have been winterized long prior to things really turning for the worst.   Sure hope the F's and 426 get out soon to someone who will use them again.