Author Topic: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.  (Read 8432 times)

Hoot

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2018, 08:15:30 PM »
One upgrade is already set in stone in Ft Wayne. But canít be discussed.
However, other capacity projects are being looked at and studied. Several options are being looked at, and which ones will be best for long term. More is probably on horizon, but which ones exactly is not known. One was designed, engineered, money allocated, then suddenly stopped. To make a short story of it, next 5 years things will probably be different around here.
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ckpcpqq

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2018, 11:00:21 AM »
A couple of questions for Ft. Wayne guys:

Whatever happened to the roadrailer terminal in Ft. Wayne?

Do the two remaining roadrailers still use Ft. Wayne facilities?

Bob Durnell

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2018, 01:30:05 PM »
The actual TC terminal appears to be being used by some business that does work with container chassis. The bulk of the yard area that TC used, NS has been using as some sort of satellite yard.  I see a lot of Steel Dynamics traffic over there, possibly some transload stuff too.   I would like to know about both of the items above.  As for the remaining TC trains, no, they don't stop in the Fort at all, just blow right on through.

EL1992

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2018, 02:02:54 PM »
I know I've heard rumors about NS reacquiring the CF&E getting welded rail and a few passing sidings, I wonder if there is any truth to that?

Bob Durnell

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2018, 02:51:40 PM »
Well first off, the CF&E has a 20 year lease, so even if CSX DID want to sell the line to NS (I have my doubts)  NS would still have to deal with the CF&E.  I really don't think NS wants a third line to Chicago with limited online traffic, especially when cost reduction is the word of the day. I also wonder if G&W wouldn't have the first right of refusal if and when CSX decides to unload.

Hoot

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2018, 05:43:40 PM »
Well, first of all, does CSX have 4 routes into Chicago, one being double track? And I think NS has 3, one being double track and one being a branchline to nowhere special. But Chicago to Ft wayne route is not the main route NS likes from CFE. 3 other route options are nice that NS likes, and almost started one last summer. But why dump money into a line you donít own and are restricted on. But, it all depends if CSX is more interested in getting immediate money or restricting CFE and NS in long run. Up to them, in my opinion.
Now, as far as some have said NS is doing the same as CSX only behind a curtain, is not exactly true. Partial, yes. Dispatchers move? Yes. Trying to make most money? Yes. Reevaluating 1/3 of their network for possible sale/lease? Not yet. Storing 1/4 of locomotives? No. Parking 1/3 of their freight cars? No. Closing a hump yard every 2-3 years is different than 8 in 6 months. NShasnt stopped capacity projects. Not saying one is right or one is wrong. There are differences. Nothing is perfect, and nothing is the same either. Yes, most companies are watching their expenses closely, to make more money for stockholders, but there are different methods going on when you look deep. Iím interested to see how each railroad does itís corporate stragety and how it works for them.
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Webnauseum

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2018, 06:02:34 PM »
Fort Wayne is pretty unique compared to say Cincy or Louisville.  You not only have multiple crew districts based there but you have crew districts that pass through it too.
So trains from Cincy to Detroit are different that Cincy to Chicago or Bellevue... 

How do they crew a train from Cincinnati to Detroit?  Do they taxi a crew up from Peru to cover the Ft Wayne-Detroit segment?

rrnut282

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2018, 07:53:13 PM »
How do they crew a train from Cincinnati to Detroit?  Do they taxi a crew up from Peru to cover the Ft Wayne-Detroit segment?
yup.  Used to do it daily on 196/197
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Webnauseum

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2018, 12:17:10 PM »
Interesting. Peru Crews also take trains (that they originate) to Toledo and Bellevue Ohio don't they?

Yet in Fort Wayne, a "Chicago" crew can't  go down to Kingsland to  pick up a train that died on hours"?

wabash2800

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2018, 02:07:01 PM »
Because of the crossings, a siding south of Hugo doesn't seem likely, but I can tell you that the crossing at Airport Expressway is a pain in the you know what as the local ties up the crossing or the gates whenever it switches the yard there. And sometimes it sits there and sits there and sits there. I had a contract job with an employer on and off for about 2-1/2 years, and that was my way to work. Even though I allowed an extra twenty minutes for such contingencies I was late a couple of times. I know that crews are bit challenged now days, since there is only a conductor and engineer, but traffic on AE can get backed up for quite a distance both ways. If you are coming from the north on AE, there is a curve about a mile before you get to the crossing. It isn't until you get around the curve before you know you are screwed with no place to turn around. (Yes, some folks turn around at the end of the guardrails right at the crossing but must make quite a detour to get back on their route. Others will turn around and drive the wrong way down the one-way southbound lanes to the next intersection.)  And there are the folks that will take their chances driving through the gates. An overpass or underpass would be nice here.

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« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 03:00:18 PM by wabash2800 »

NSHuntingtonDistrict

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2018, 02:28:33 PM »
Piqua Yard is mostly just block swapping now. 10E comes in and breaks up the Conways and Bellevues. A Mansfield crew takes the 10E symbol and Conways over the CFE eastbound. 10R comes in and picks up Bellevues, don't know if they also set off. It also stages rail trains and some local stuff. Peru crews still take trains to Toledo and Bellevue from time to time. We get to cover their one ended pools they took from us, when they don't have anyone from Toledo or Bellevue rested, which is very frequently. The Detroit pool has been taking lots of trains to Butler for handoff to a Toledo-Elkhart crew. Just last night they used a MU Peru crew to take 20T to Toledo.
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Webnauseum

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2018, 03:51:59 PM »
I was looking over an old Norfolk and Western trackchart from 1977 earlier, and noticed that the track from Hugo down to Ferguson was considered part of "the Fort Wayne Division" at that time. (Muncie Division from Ferguson southward) Does that boundry have anything to do with the prohibition mentioned earlier preventing Chicago side crews from picking up trains in Kingsland?

Wes Lewis

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2018, 06:30:49 PM »
Assigned freight pool service has assigned limits and if they go beyond those assigned limits, there are penalties involved.  A assigned Chicago freight pool crew would be well out of its limits if it were to go to Kingsland and there are also qualification issues.  The same would go for a Cincinnati assigned freight pool crew that could not go to Dunfee, for example. 

Removing the trackage between Junction and Runnion Avenue made the city of Fort Wayne happy and the folks who travel West Jefferson but it created a huge bottleneck and endless delays for the trains traveling between Cincinnati and Chicago.  Things were never the same after the possibility of meeting on the double track on the Chicago District was eliminated.

Webnauseum

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2018, 07:55:00 PM »
Assigned freight pool service has assigned limits and if they go beyond those assigned limits, there are penalties involved.  A assigned Chicago freight pool crew would be well out of its limits if it were to go to Kingsland and there are also qualification issues.  The same would go for a Cincinnati assigned freight pool crew that could not go to Dunfee, for example. 


Thanks for your reply, but one more question toward  that  end:  Don't Fort Wayne crews make the run between Ft Wayne and Cincinnati?  I thought their territory went "both ways" (FtW-Chi and FtW-Cin).  I could be wrong about that, but several years ago when I participated in a hiring session I could have sworn they said Cincinnati was part of the job.

Rick

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2018, 08:53:19 PM »
Thanks for your reply, but one more question toward  that  end:  Don't Fort Wayne crews make the run between Ft Wayne and Cincinnati?  I thought their territory went "both ways" (FtW-Chi and FtW-Cin).  I could be wrong about that, but several years ago when I participated in a hiring session I could have sworn they said Cincinnati was part of the job.
Yes, ft Wayne crews go to cinci.  Thatís according to an engineer I work with who has family that runs out of ft Wayne. 


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CIOR_CO

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2018, 08:55:22 PM »
Interesting. Peru Crews also take trains (that they originate) to Toledo and Bellevue Ohio don't they?

Yet in Fort Wayne, a "Chicago" crew can't  go down to Kingsland to  pick up a train that died on hours"?

Depends on if they're qualified or not.  Winters Road is the "magic line".  If the head end of the train is at Winters Road, an Elkhart or Chicago crew must be qualified to take a train from here.  Pleasant Center Road southward is a penalty claim called used off assigned territory (UA).  Many Chicago/Elk crews are not qualified south of Winters Road, but in the chance they are, the Chief Dispatcher or someone in that office must authorize the UA.  They don't happen in that neck of the woods very often though.  For instance the 288 died in the siding at Kingsland a couple weeks back.  The plan was to get the train to Winters Road so the outbound crew could get on, but since that didn't happen and the engineer wasn't qualified to Kingsland, the train sat there for nearly 12 hours until a Muncie Relief crew could take it up to the double main.  Efficiency at its best lol

As far as your question on "both ways" territories...

Away terminals for Fort Wayne crews are Chicago, Cincinnati, Elkhart and Bellevue.  When you first hire out as a conductor you are trained to each terminal.  Some choose to let their qualifications lapse with no desire to work a certain direction(s).  Engineers are the same way.  You're initially trained to those 4 locations, plus out to Huntington (for GM and the industries just to the west, also up to Montpelier, Ohio)  Again, some choose one direction over the others. 

Some reasons I've heard of for not going a certain way:

Cincinnati:  Many hate the long run (between 196-226 miles) and getting beat up with frequent long waits along the way (Muncie, New River Jct, CP248, 78th Street and anywhere on CSX) 

Chicago:  The dorm is the primary reason here.  It's pretty new, but is in a crappy part of town.  I've heard gunshots a few times and the Home Depot across the street is fenced in with razor ribbon if that tells you anything.  Almost feel like a prisoner

Elkhart:  Short run of 77 miles so you typically work a little more often....turn and burn we call it, but it can wear you down

Bellevue:  The dorm is on the edge of town, far away from places to eat.  It's older (some rooms still have tube televisions) and lacks refrigerators/microwaves in the rooms.  This side has the most road trains that work line of road (Fostoria Mixer) and that turns some people away who want grip on/grip off all the time, not to mention it seems like an eternity at times yarding your train here IF you make it in lol


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Rick

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Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2018, 09:16:22 PM »
Depends on if they're qualified or not.  Winters Road is the "magic line".  If the head end of the train is at Winters Road, an Elkhart or Chicago crew must be qualified to take a train from here.  Pleasant Center Road southward is a penalty claim called used off assigned territory (UA).  Many Chicago/Elk crews are not qualified south of Winters Road, but in the chance they are, the Chief Dispatcher or someone in that office must authorize the UA.  They don't happen in that neck of the woods very often though.  For instance the 288 died in the siding at Kingsland a couple weeks back.  The plan was to get the train to Winters Road so the outbound crew could get on, but since that didn't happen and the engineer wasn't qualified to Kingsland, the train sat there for nearly 12 hours until a Muncie Relief crew could take it up to the double main.  Efficiency at its best lol

As far as your question on "both ways" territories...

Away terminals for Fort Wayne crews are Chicago, Cincinnati, Elkhart and Bellevue.  When you first hire out as a conductor you are trained to each terminal.  Some choose to let their qualifications lapse with no desire to work a certain direction(s).  Engineers are the same way.  You're initially trained to those 4 locations, plus out to Huntington (for GM and the industries just to the west, also up to Montpelier, Ohio)  Again, some choose one direction over the others. 

Some reasons I've heard of for not going a certain way:

Cincinnati:  Many hate the long run (between 196-226 miles) and getting beat up with frequent long waits along the way (Muncie, New River Jct, CP248, 78th Street and anywhere on CSX) 

Chicago:  The dorm is the primary reason here.  It's pretty new, but is in a crappy part of town.  I've heard gunshots a few times and the Home Depot across the street is fenced in with razor ribbon if that tells you anything.  Almost feel like a prisoner

Elkhart:  Short run of 77 miles so you typically work a little more often....turn and burn we call it, but it can wear you down

Bellevue:  The dorm is on the edge of town, far away from places to eat.  It's older (some rooms still have tube televisions) and lacks refrigerators/microwaves in the rooms.  This side has the most road trains that work line of road (Fostoria Mixer) and that turns some people away who want grip on/grip off all the time, not to mention it seems like an eternity at times yarding your train here IF you make it in lol
Donít forget the restaurant food as well.  I actually like it but many get the Chicago craps 15-20 mins after eating there.  Not too many places to eat within walking distance either. 

The plus side is there are a ton of great food places from the yards to the dorm.


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indyspy

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2018, 10:02:32 PM »
LOL the craps. CIOR said you had to watch the Dairy Barn in Camden was bad for that.
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CIOR

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2018, 12:53:05 AM »
About why on the terminal, Fort Wayne was a run through on the Wabash side and when the traffic moved Peru Bellevue it was similar.  I believe Peru to Montpelier Ohio and Detroit was previous.

The other runs where NKP and thus why FtWayne is divided up.

I ordered the NCD aka Cincy run, even back in the HOJO days in Norwood was better then the wagon wheel crap hole in Chicago or the ancient dorm in Bellevue. Use to think the south end was a luxury, even if setting and rotting at NA or Bond Hill was in the picture.

STLX 7000

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Re: Norfolk Southern capacity projects.
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2018, 01:09:40 AM »
Of course some of the Winters Road -Hadley congestion could easily be relieved if they'd just let the ME crews take trains to/from Elkhart.

Affected train symbols:
142/143
174/177
60C/61C
808/809

These and any and all grain extras could and should be routed via the Branch. Maybe add a siding north and south of Marion and voila half you congestion in the Fort Wayne terminal is gone.