Author Topic: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......  (Read 61544 times)

csxgp15t

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Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« on: January 20, 2017, 03:53:50 PM »
I finally found time to go out and document some things happening some 17 months into this lines shutdown.  I have seen posts on this forum pertaining to the removal of the diamonds in Odin and Shattuc, but no pics.

Below the photos show the deed that has been done.

Pictures 1,2,and 3 are taken in Shattuc,IL . I was fortunate enough to catch a BNSF NB

Pictures 4,5,and 6 are taken in Odin,IL. Again, I caught a NB on the CN/IC

« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:37:25 PM by csxgp15t »

csxgp15t

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 04:19:05 PM »
One more item to note:
The rail was put back in from where it was originally severed to accommodate a little more storage.

Photo 1: Looking West at the rail removed. This is at the crossing on County road #9.

Photo 2: Looking West at the location originally severed. Forum member CSX2605's photo of original location.

Photo 3: Looking East. you can see the boxcars that are stored on the main. It was posted on this forum a couple of months ago about the extra of boxcars headed for storage. This is why they extended the segment of track.

CSX2605

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 08:12:07 PM »
Thanks for the update. Hard to believe what has happened.

Rick

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 09:29:14 PM »
This line looks good for being storage.  I missed the original thread but why did this line get shit down?  I presume lack of business


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csxgp15t

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 09:53:13 PM »
 Unfortunately after the Conrail acquisition, this line was slowly deemed "Surplus" by CSX. It's once healthy schedule of trains slowly shifted over to the Conrail Indianapolis line, as traffic patterns changed. Down to the very end, there were two or three trains a day.  Basically it was acting as a relief valve to the old Conrail, and thus very costly to keep open. There has been very little local traffic west of Flora, making it very easy to walk away from their common carrier obligation.

 A few years back there was a capital improvement project that replaced all color position light signals with a reliable modern system. The line was poised and ready to go for increased western coal traffic that never materialized. Couple this lack of new traffic, no local customer base, and pressure to boost earnings.........
You have the current status of the Illinois Subdivision.

Rick

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 10:57:40 PM »
Unfortunately after the Conrail acquisition, this line was slowly deemed "Surplus" by CSX. It's once healthy schedule of trains slowly shifted over to the Conrail Indianapolis line, as traffic patterns changed. Down to the very end, there were two or three trains a day.  Basically it was acting as a relief valve to the old Conrail, and thus very costly to keep open. There has been very little local traffic west of Flora, making it very easy to walk away from their common carrier obligation.

 A few years back there was a capital improvement project that replaced all color position light signals with a reliable modern system. The line was poised and ready to go for increased western coal traffic that never materialized. Couple this lack of new traffic, no local customer base, and pressure to boost earnings.........
You have the current status of the Illinois Subdivision.
Thank you


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VGR

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2017, 04:08:54 AM »
Hopefully coal traffic will see a big uptick with the new pres. People in the coal country need jobs

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xgap

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2017, 09:50:01 AM »
If coal would, there is still capacity on other routes. As diamonds come out and PTC goes in, check the CSX map and listen to the latest chatter, the latest savings plans may include shortline operators and the rip out of what is unused. Rip out is the easy part.

NWChicagoRailfan

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2017, 04:18:27 PM »
Hopefully coal traffic will see a big uptick with the new pres. People in the coal country need jobs
Let's assume your situation comes true (which it won't as long as natural gas is cheap). Why would CSX be shipping coal west? What market is there for Appalachian coal in the middle of the Illinois Basin? Furthermore, what market is there for Appalachian Coal when you cross the Mississippi and get into Powder River coal territory?

CSX_CO

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 04:42:00 PM »
Let's assume your situation comes true (which it won't as long as natural gas is cheap). Why would CSX be shipping coal west? What market is there for Appalachian coal in the middle of the Illinois Basin? Furthermore, what market is there for Appalachian Coal when you cross the Mississippi and get into Powder River coal territory?

Higher BTU Content in both. PRB BTU content isn't great, but the low sulphuric content makes up for that.

trainmaster53

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 06:48:32 PM »
And what will CSX do if that Coal does come back where they took the Tracks out. "Houston We Have a Problem".

NWChicagoRailfan

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 07:53:31 PM »
And what will CSX do if that Coal does come back where they took the Tracks out. "Houston We Have a Problem".
They'll route it on the Indianapolis Line or they'll put in the handful of diamonds and rails. Not much of a problem.

Rick

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2017, 07:59:56 PM »
Let's assume your situation comes true (which it won't as long as natural gas is cheap). Why would CSX be shipping coal west? What market is there for Appalachian coal in the middle of the Illinois Basin? Furthermore, what market is there for Appalachian Coal when you cross the Mississippi and get into Powder River coal territory?
I've recently seen loaded coal trains heading west on the NS Chicago line.  Not sure where they are going.  Use to only see empties heading west and loaded going east. 


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CatFoodFlambe

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2017, 11:15:15 PM »
Unfortunately, with Appalachian coal costing somewhere between $58-$65 a ton at the mine mouth vs about $45-$51 for Illinois Basin coal (mined in IL/IN/W. KY) and $9-$12 in the Powder River Basin,  App coal isn't coming back.    And, sadly, ground zero for the less-expense App coal is smack dab on top of the Marcellus Shale gas field, which is already over-drilled for the demand.    Once you drill the gas well, the recovery costs are minisule.  :(

 Ill/Ind coal is chemically similar to coal mined in Colorado and Utah - the latter has the same BTU with about 1/4th the sulfur.  A lot of Midwestern plants mix in just enough to sit right on the edge of emissions laws -  I/I coal could increase their share here by about 15%-20% if they were to be removed. 

Union  vs. non-union wages, while a factor, are not the underlying reason - it's about removing overburden and country rock vs salable coal.   IIRC, there are no UMW mines left in the State of Kentucky, but Eastern Kentucky might the most devestated field in Appalachia.

With no worries about pollution control, the natural cost boundary after adjusting for energy values and transportation costs for Powder River Coal and IB roughly follows Interstate 75 from Michigan  down to Atlanta, then southeast to Savannah, GA.   Add any water-served power plant on the Great Lakes or the Gulf Coast to the PW/II books as well.   

If your plant's boilers were designed for App Coal, you're going to need it until the plant's steam system needs to be replaced or your coal source expires - some movement will continue for quite a while.  Additionally,  Ill/Ind coal is chemically similar to coal mined in Colorado and Utah (the latter has about half again as many BTU's with about one-third the sulfur, and boilers designed for one can often burn the two types interchangably). Quite a few plants  in the eastern Midwest mix in just enough it with the local stuff to sit right on the edge of emissions laws.   IB coal could increase their share here if we were to be remove emissions control. 

I take no joy in this -  just stating the economics of the power generation business.   :(

High_Hood

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 07:00:23 AM »
I've recently seen loaded coal trains heading west on the NS Chicago line.  Not sure where they are going.  Use to only see empties heading west and loaded going east. 

I don't know if this is still the case but in Aug of 2015 I noticed some odd routing while watching a heritage unit. Coal train loaded in Carlinville, IL to the NIPSCO plant NE of Wheatfield, IN. The routing has been up the former Wabash via Decatur to Ft. Wayne, then across the NKP to Bellevue, up the old PRR to Sandusky then turning west on the former CR (LSMS/NYC) to Gary then south on former NYC to Schneider and a turn east to Wheatfield.
As for why this routing, I have no earthly idea

Rick

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2017, 08:45:47 AM »
I don't know if this is still the case but in Aug of 2015 I noticed some odd routing while watching a heritage unit. Coal train loaded in Carlinville, IL to the NIPSCO plant NE of Wheatfield, IN. The routing has been up the former Wabash via Decatur to Ft. Wayne, then across the NKP to Bellevue, up the old PRR to Sandusky then turning west on the former CR (LSMS/NYC) to Gary then south on former NYC to Schneider and a turn east to Wheatfield.
As for why this routing, I have no earthly idea

Now that is some strange routing right there. 

CSX_CO

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2017, 09:12:56 AM »
B&O and NYC in northern IN is one of the few locations you could see loaded coal trains passing each other, and empty coal trains passing each.  Each going opposite directions. Most railroads have only loads one direction and empties the other.  PRB coal going east, Appalachian coal going west.

CSX2605

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2017, 12:50:23 PM »
B&O and NYC in northern IN is one of the few locations you could see loaded coal trains passing each other, and empty coal trains passing each.  Each going opposite directions.
The CE&D sub is another.  Just saw it happen last Friday.   8)

Ralph

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2017, 12:53:22 PM »
The CE&D sub is another.  Just saw it happen last Friday.   8)

Have seen it many times at Haley Tower but I've never tracked which coal trains they were. After all, there are east/west and north/south trains going past as well as PRB coal trains going east past Haley that are going to Con Mil connection to go south.

Robert 96

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Re: Current State of the CSX Illinois Subdivision.......
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2017, 01:29:09 PM »
Does any of the Appalachian coal get shipped over seas anymore or is that all over too?