Author Topic: ITM / Fishers in a dispute  (Read 140483 times)

Trainman19

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1680 on: November 25, 2018, 01:42:40 PM »
ITM = Dumpster Fire. Close up shop, pull up the rails and call it quits. What a complete disaster. The ITM should be a case study on how an organizational leadership's lack of vision can destroy a not-for-profit.

You sound like one of those people who could care less about how that very thing would kill a lot of good that people are still trying to do.


My recommendation is to reorganize it and work with what's left after the mess they just got out of to keep going.
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scraphauler

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1681 on: November 25, 2018, 11:09:56 PM »
Plenty of blame to go around for what all has transpired.  And maybe the old guard is gone and there are new leaders in charge. The thing I know I find distasteful (and I know plenty in industry feel similar)  is the sheer sense of self intitledment or arrogance displayed by some in leadership at the museum and their vocal supporters.

Post the  supposed leadership changes, people that claim to be involved and those that play “me too” are on social media talking about legal actions they’ll take against G&W etc in Logansport if they don’t get their way.  “Our switch was taken out illegally”. “We’ll sue to get a diamond put back in”. “We gotta make the TP&W hurt”. 

Yes, what happened at Noblesville was crappy.  And if the museum wants to waste resources fighting about it, that up to them.  But don’t think you are entitled to run on someone else’s property just because you want to. That’s the easiest way to loose any support you may have inside the rail industry.

Trainman19

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1682 on: November 27, 2018, 03:42:39 PM »
Plenty of blame to go around for what all has transpired.  And maybe the old guard is gone and there are new leaders in charge. The thing I know I find distasteful (and I know plenty in industry feel similar)  is the sheer sense of self intitledment or arrogance displayed by some in leadership at the museum and their vocal supporters.

Post the  supposed leadership changes, people that claim to be involved and those that play “me too” are on social media talking about legal actions they’ll take against G&W etc in Logansport if they don’t get their way.  “Our switch was taken out illegally”. “We’ll sue to get a diamond put back in”. “We gotta make the TP&W hurt”. 

Yes, what happened at Noblesville was crappy.  And if the museum wants to waste resources fighting about it, that up to them.  But don’t think you are entitled to run on someone else’s property just because you want to. That’s the easiest way to loose any support you may have inside the rail industry.

First I've heard of legal actions. As for the switch issue... I've heard a number of versions of how that switch was removed. Wanted to believe the illegal story (which was a thing BEFORE the museum was booted from Hamilton County and confirmed to be coming to Logansport), but I don't have all the facts.
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DUPER

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1683 on: November 28, 2018, 03:50:35 PM »
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/2018/11/12/fishers-nickel-plate-trail-amenities-residents-submit-ideas/1850082002/

Once again, somehow "cyclists" get to pursue their hobby at taxpayer expense.  They get to cycle on yet more publicly funded right of ways.  I have no idea why politicians cater to these hobbyists, as if having more opportunities for cycling evolve a city beyond a collection of deplorables. 

Why politicians need to think of their cities as more elite than others boggles my mind.

HHPA can maintain the corridor by hiring a mowing crew every few months.

Hemigray 42

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1684 on: November 28, 2018, 05:04:11 PM »
So much for 9 million for trail you can see this was planned a long time before ITM lock out and the more I smell this stinks to high heaven of backdoor land deals.

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CSX_CO

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1685 on: November 28, 2018, 08:00:38 PM »
Once again, somehow "<insert any hobbist> get to pursue their hobby at taxpayer expense.  They get to <pursue hobby> on yet more publicly funded <facilities>.  I have no idea why politicians cater to these hobbyists, as if having more opportunities for <any other hobby> evolve a city beyond a collection of deplorables. 

Almost every outdoor hobby in some form benefits from taxpayer expense.

Rail fanning?  Benefitting from all those paved roads you didn’t directly pay for.

Enjoy fishing? Unless your using your own privately stocked pond, you’re benefitting from tax payers subsidizing your hobby.  Boat ramp, DNR stocking activities, etc.

Hiking?  Your gate fees (if you get charged) don’t cover operational expenses, and are funded through other means.

List goes on..and on...and on.

So...if your going to be outraged, don’t be selective in your outrage.  Let’s cut all subsidies to people’s hobbies!

trainmaster53

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1686 on: November 28, 2018, 09:14:27 PM »
No Body Pays for My Model Railroad Hobby but Me out of My own Pocket. If what you say is true, then Maybe I should find someone to  Subsidize My Railroad. Then it wouldn't cost me so much to Operate and up date the equipment on it.

CSX_CO

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1687 on: November 28, 2018, 11:08:13 PM »
No Body Pays for My Model Railroad Hobby but Me out of My own Pocket. If what you say is true, then Maybe I should find someone to  Subsidize My Railroad. Then it wouldn't cost me so much to Operate and up date the equipment on it.

I guess that’s why I said “OUTDOOR HOBBY”....

To be honest, with expenses spread out across an entire product run, the other hobbyists are subsidizing Your Purchase (and you theirs) with their purchase.

xgap

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1688 on: November 28, 2018, 11:25:23 PM »
LOL, Thanks for posting the Indystar Story, More LOL!
I assume that way of thinking is is fine if you have the tax revenue for such.
Lesser communities are going belly up with such pie in the sky as their infrastructure crumbles.

3rd hand rumor; from the Mayor knows best Noblesville, If we can't rid ourselves of the track south of Forrest Park, no worry,  we will build next to existing.
Plan accordingly.

Kim_Heusel

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1689 on: November 29, 2018, 08:19:50 AM »
Is there any word on where the case is with the STB regarding US Rail's desire to buy the line?

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scraphauler

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1690 on: November 29, 2018, 12:34:45 PM »
I asked an STB Attorney I'm dealing with on unrelated issue his opinion and he said the STB would essentially be writing new law/establishing new precedent to side with US and he didn't see that happening.

On related note, STB filing hit wire today of TP&W take over of the WSRY.  I believe US's last day was Sunday and CERA is operating it in the interim.  Wonder if G&W rolls CERA into TPW eventually   

danielm75

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1691 on: November 29, 2018, 02:07:08 PM »
I remember reading the article in The Star earlier this year when it was announced that US Rail had wanted to buy the line. I hope someone buys it, keeps the tracks in so that Fishers and Noblesville doesn't tear them out. The Port Authority needs to be dissolved. They haven't done anything ever since they were formed, except being in the same beds as the mayors of Fishers and Noblesville.

central1751

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1692 on: December 02, 2018, 02:41:57 PM »
Is anything else going to escape Forest Park this year?  Lots of stuff yet to get moved out, along with all the heavy hitters ie the diesels.  The total lack of outside rail connections is definantly making it much more difficult and expensive for all parties involved to get thier items out of there.  Was hoping to see some of the diesels moved when the NKP group had the F unit brought into Atlanta since the heavy equipment to move that kind of weight was in the area.  Can they even move that heavy stuff thru the winter months or are things on hold till the ground dries out in the spring/early summer 2019?

Trainman19

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1693 on: December 02, 2018, 09:03:00 PM »
A transfer caboose has arrived in Logansport, at the planned new site for ITM. I assume that came from Forest Park, but I may be wrong.
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Ralph

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1694 on: December 02, 2018, 09:55:28 PM »
A transfer caboose has arrived in Logansport, at the planned new site for ITM. I assume that came from Forest Park, but I may be wrong.
It came from ITM's yard and belonged to the Monon Historical Technical Society. Now reportedly owned by Ken Davenport, the owner of the Monon DS50 locomotive. If you have a Facebook account you can read the discussion on the Indiana Transportation Museum Discussion Public group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/351729558691338/

Trainman19

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1695 on: December 03, 2018, 04:10:51 AM »
Been part of that for a while and posted about the caboose there and in my own thread about the move to Logansport. Thanks, anyway.
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CSX_CO

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1696 on: December 03, 2018, 11:10:48 PM »
So the only thing moved to the new site is privately owned?  None of the museum owned equipment is there?

Trainman19

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1697 on: December 04, 2018, 04:18:14 AM »
2 Army boxcars and a lot of smaller stuff like the display stands, etc.
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central1751

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1698 on: December 04, 2018, 05:08:27 PM »
All the coaches went south to near Santa Clause for refurb instead to going to Logansport.  426, 200, the F units are still down in Noblesville and ownership of them is about clear as mud IMHO with US Rail getting the boot in Kokomo.   City of Kokomo has yet to move anything they are supposed to have bought including the Baldwin and 44 ton diesels.   DS50 has been acting as the shop switcher to move items to the load out area and I suspect it will continue to do that before being hauled to Logansport.  Very little movement other than the traction items for that one group, and cars bought by the group that has 587 stored for ITM.   I would have thought we would have seen more movement of equipment this year but I guess not.          Mike

pabrankle

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Re: ITM / Fishers in a dispute
« Reply #1699 on: December 05, 2018, 11:52:38 AM »
Article from Indianapolis Business Journal

State weighs whether Fishers followed law in proposing tax hike for trail

More than a dozen residents have expressed formal opposition to the city of Fishers' 2019 budget because of a tax increase related to the proposed Nickel Plate Trail, sparking a public hearing Tuesday in front of the Indiana Department of Local Government Finance.

The hearing was scheduled after residents filed a petition Sept. 24 against the then-proposed 2019 budget, which Fishers adopted in October. The budget includes a property tax increase to help fund the city's portion of the Nickel Plate Trail.

The petition states that residents object to the proposed tax increase intended to fund the Nickel Plate Trail because the city “failed to comply with the public hearing provisions of Indiana Code 36-9-6.1-8.” The petition requested that the budget be amended to exclude any funding for the Nickel Plate Trail.

Under the budget adopted by Fishers City Council, the property tax rate will increase about 4 cents, to about 69 cents per $100 of assessed value. About 1.5 cents of the increase is expected to go toward the trail project, city officials previously told IBJ.

A lawsuit is pending in Hamilton County that accuses Fishers of failing to comply with Indiana’s public access laws relating to meetings held in 2017 and 2018 regarding the Nickel Plate Trail project.

The petition filed with the DLGF states: “Until it can be proven that the city of Fishers did comply with these laws, [it] should be prohibited from raising taxes for the Nickel Plate Trail Project.”

Tuesday, most of the testimony at the hearing focused on preserving the rail and opposition to the tax increase. Many said they’re opposed to the tax hike because there has been no comprehensive budget released for the project.

Logan Day, a spokesperson for Save the Nickel Plate, which filed the pending lawsuit against Fishers and other Hamilton County communities, said he finds it troubling and irresponsible that there has been no budget for the project, even though Fishers is planning a tax hike.

“We don’t have any type of budget,” he said. “If you speak with city councilors or the mayor … there’s not any type of clear, defined budget for what we’ll spend.”

Officials originally said the entire project (from 96th Street in Fishers to Pleasant Street in Noblesville) would cost about cost $9.3 million, but that figure has grown, Day said.

He asked the DLGF to step in to make sure residents aren’t paying for a project with an open checkbook.

Bill Brown, who said he’s lived in Fishers for 41 years, echoed much of what Day said. He’s concerned with how much construction will be involved where the trail intersects with major roads. Improvements to keep those intersections safe will be costly, he said.

David Marusarz, deputy general counsel for the DLGF, told residents they have until end of the day Friday to submit supplemental information to the department proving Fishers violated public hearing provisions during the budget process. The department will take those submissions and testimony into consideration when issuing a determination about whether the city followed state procedures for adopting the tax rate and its budget, he said.

He expects the DLGF will issue a determination in the next few weeks, as the city's budget must be certified by Dec. 31.

After the meeting, Fishers Mayor Scott Fadness told IBJ there’s a “tremendous amount of excitement” for the trail project.

He said the petition filed by residents isn’t unusual when residents don’t feel they’ve been able to influence decision makers, but the city followed procedures in giving residents plenty of opportunities to weigh in on the tax increase.

“I understand what they’re doing,” he said of the protesters. “I understand that is a tactic that people will take. Does it waste time and resources of our staff? Yes. Our democratic structure is such that it allows for a lot of opportunities for these types of appeals.”

He said the city will be transparent and professional when responding to the DLGF about the appeal.