Author Topic: Hoosier State to end  (Read 41754 times)

indyspy

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2015, 09:03:11 PM »
The last thing we need as an industry is for the FRA to start making up their own rules on the fly.

You mean like the rest of the federal alphabet agencies already are.

Forget about just the FRA, can only imagine the fun the STB could cause if they join in this "fun"
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scraphauler

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2015, 09:19:02 PM »
You mean like the rest of the federal alphabet agencies already are.

Forget about just the FRA, can only imagine the fun the STB could cause if they join in this "fun"

Exactly.  Where does it stop?   
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trainmaster53

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2015, 09:43:57 PM »
That seems to be why Dan Coats has gotten involved in this.

Bob Durnell

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2015, 10:53:26 PM »
Like the train or not.  Agree with its funding or not.  Ride the train or not.   The fact of the matter is The State of Indiana for whatever reason you wish to believe WANTS to fund the Hoosier State.  And they are being prevented in doing so by what appears to be an over reaching regulatory agency trying to make up it's own rules and regulations as it goes.

The Hoosier State may or may not be a whole lot of nothing - everyone can decide that for themselves.  I would hope a regulatory agency taking on legislative and executive duties to make up the rules as they go would NOT be considered a whole lot of nothing by most.   The railroad industry faces a lot of legitimate challenges that go through the proper channels - big stuff like PTC and little stuff like a horrible bill known as HR 844.  The last thing we need as an industry is for the FRA to start making up their own rules on the fly.

No disagreement there.  The future of the train should be decided by Amtrak and the state of Indiana, NOT government agencies sticking their nose into places they don't belong and probably don't understand.

Bob Durnell

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2015, 11:01:17 PM »
What seems to have lost in all this back and forth.  Are the people like me who enjoy riding the train.  If I want to take the bus...I would take the bus,  as it's been pointed out many times the bus is faster.  That's not the point.  I much prefer riding the train.  I'm over 6 ft tall bus seats are just cramped for me.  If I want to see I 65 I could just drive.
It sounds like INDOT is trying to get more people in the seats.  But that can never happen if the train goes away all together.  So I hope you don't mind when I raise my hand and say "excuse me" what about the folks that actually ride the Hoosier State.  I'm not so sure that a lot of post's in here, have even given it a try.

Well sorry, but what you enjoy and prefer is of little concern to me as a taxpayer.  I would probably enjoy and prefer being hauled around in a limo, but I don't see anyone offering me that service at a fraction of it's actual cost. 

Amtk427

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2015, 11:13:19 PM »
Well sorry, but what you enjoy and prefer is of little concern to me as a taxpayer.  I would probably enjoy and prefer being hauled around in a limo, but I don't see anyone offering me that service at a fraction of it's actual cost.
Ummm I pay those taxes too. Their are probably 10,000 items in the Indiana budget that are less worthy of being funded. I would gladly pay a higher fare if it meant saving the train.

Bob Durnell

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2015, 12:16:54 AM »
Ummm I pay those taxes too. Their are probably 10,000 items in the Indiana budget that are less worthy of being funded. I would gladly pay a higher fare if it meant saving the train.

Well, you can play that game all day.  All you can do is try to elect people that support your point of view, and to try to sway the decisions of those that get elected.  Myself, I will be casting votes for people that see the folly in supporting a 4th travel option used by .005% of the state's population with my tax dollars.

xgap

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2015, 01:02:55 AM »
Plenty agree the present HS is a dud, that's why the push for improvements. Nothing new with that. What does YOUR Indy- Chicago corridor look like in 2065 and how is it paid for?

doublestacks

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2015, 01:25:24 AM »
maybe dan coats has a spine after all.

the bottom line is, reguardless of what the ridership is now, there will be no more growth if there is no longer a train to serve the people. so the FRA needs to be put in their place.
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Bob Durnell

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2015, 01:55:48 AM »
Plenty agree the present HS is a dud, that's why the push for improvements. Nothing new with that. What does YOUR Indy- Chicago corridor look like in 2065 and how is it paid for?

The rail line in question is NOT going anywhere.  If at some point in the future the financials make more sense, then you revisit the issue.  As I said before, unless you can make the train a WHOLE LOT faster and reliable without making it a whole lot more expensive, I don't think you can raise the numbers enough to matter, and HOW are you going to make that happen?  I don't have the research to back it up, but my guess is that even if you could somehow capture  25% of all the POTENTIAL (and that means people who can travel light enough for the train at the hours the train can run, and can still get where they are going) passengers in this corridor,  I STILL don't think you have enough people to make even a pretense of economic sense.   Keep in mind that modern technology is making business travel less necessary and high costs are making it less acceptable,  and business travelers are the people that will make or break any of these corridor trains. The person who rides it 2-3 times a year isn't going to make it viable.

xgap

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2015, 02:03:47 AM »
So I65 in 2065?

Monon

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2015, 08:27:11 AM »
It may be the Feds on this particular issue, but the State of Indiana has been anti-rail for decades, beginning with the 1985 State Rail Plan that was forecasting (hoping?) for abandonment across the state. Indiana refused to pick up any cost related to the Valpo Dummies and let them die 25 years ago and the NICTD has had to beg for even the smallest of assistance. Indiana often acts as if NW Indiana belongs to Illinois. The state and city of Indianapolis should have moved forward with commuter rail to Noblesville to the north, Muncie to the east and Terre Haute to the west years ago. But that might involve taxes and a study of macroeconomics beyond what many are willing to consider.
The state of Indiana has a debt of $46,377,635,000, or $7,094 per person. We are ranked 48th in debt in the country. Illinois has a debt of $321,354,115,000, or   $24,959 per person. They are ranked 5th in debt in the country. How is the macroeconomics working for your state? The citizens of Indiana have voted to keep our state in responsible fiscal condition. If that means you consider us anti-rail, then I guess we are. Personally I think most Hoosiers want to see our state be responsible with their money.  (Sources: State Budget Solutions, "State Budget Solutions' Fourth Annual State Debt Report," January 8, 2014.)



Bob Durnell

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2015, 08:32:02 AM »
The REAL question is, would having even the BEST possible rail service take enough traffic off I65 to even make a difference?  The interstates between Boston and DC are empty, right?  My contention is that 90% of the traffic on I65 is NEVER going to be able to get the type of transportation they need from a passenger train, ANY passenger train.

indrr

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2015, 10:28:04 AM »
This being a "news" topic, let's keep it to the news side of the topic and not rehash these discussions. Thanks.
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1976

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2015, 06:34:22 PM »
Another blow for the naysayers. Sounds like the FRA might be thinking twice here.


http://www.jconline.com/story/news/2015/03/13/hoosier-state-line-gets-day-extension/70283594/

trainmaster53

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2015, 06:54:49 PM »
If the Hoosier State was Operating out of Indianapolis by its self. That Train could generate 34,300 Riders. It amazes me that New York City is Much Bigger than Indianapolis and the Cardinal only seen 11,651 Riders. Now figure that one out. Who depends on these Trains the most. Some are worried about their Tax Dollars going to a Train. You Need to Take a Good Look at Where Your Tax Dollars are Not Going. Look at the Crappy Highways and the Poor Shape they are in. And you are Worried about your Tax Dollars going to the Hoosier State. Would You Like to Pay for the Repairs on Our Car because of Our Poor Interstate Systems. I prefer to Stay Off them as Much as I can. I can Tell you This, I will Support Amtrak 100% Over these Crappy Highways anytime.

trainmaster53

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2015, 06:58:33 PM »
One Correction. The Hoosier State would be 35,300 Riders by its self if this was our only Train from Indy to Chicago on a Daily Basis. I was off by 1000.

CSX_CO

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2015, 07:18:01 PM »
One reason for the discrepancy out of New York might be that Amtrak offers a lot better options for travel for most of the major cities served by the cardinal.

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trainmaster53

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2015, 07:51:57 PM »
Indianapolis Offers Airplanes and Busses To. I will also say one other thing about the Riders of the Hoosier State. They are  Tax Payers as well. The Cardinal between Indianapolis and Lafayette generates 27,875 Riders a Year, The Hoosier State Generates 31,413 Riders a Year. Combine those two Totals and you have if that was the Hoosier State alone.  59,288 tax Payers a Year between Lafayette and Indianapolis. Chicago Figures show that the Cardinal Generates 53,987 Riders a Year, and the Hoosier State Generates 34,413 Riders a Year. That is 88,400 Tax Payers a Year that rides these Two Train. That is only 11,600 People Shy of 100,000 People that Ride Trains. Take the Planes away again and see what the Amtrak Counts will be then. They will go up.

CSX_CO

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2015, 08:55:43 PM »
Indianapolis Offers Airplanes and Busses To. I will also say one other thing about the Riders of the Hoosier State. They are  Tax Payers as well. The Cardinal between Indianapolis and Lafayette generates 27,875 Riders a Year, The Hoosier State Generates 31,413 Riders a Year. Combine those two Totals and you have if that was the Hoosier State alone.  59,288 tax Payers a Year between Lafayette and Indianapolis. Chicago Figures show that the Cardinal Generates 53,987 Riders a Year, and the Hoosier State Generates 34,413 Riders a Year. That is 88,400 Tax Payers a Year that rides these Two Train. That is only 11,600 People Shy of 100,000 People that Ride Trains. Take the Planes away again and see what the Amtrak Counts will be then. They will go up.

You completely missed the point. The Lake Shore serves Chicago faster from New York. NEC serves New York to DC.  Capital would serve DC to Chicago faster.  Etc.

No one takes the Cardinal from the east end of the route for the speed.