Author Topic: Hoosier State to end  (Read 41758 times)

IN1312

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #200 on: May 01, 2015, 10:32:10 PM »
INRD would do Bloomington to Indy themselves if they thought they could make a profit. Then again, maybe that is why they are talking to IP?

CSX_CO

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #201 on: May 01, 2015, 10:46:23 PM »
INRD would do Bloomington to Indy themselves if they thought they could make a profit. Then again, maybe that is why they are talking to IP?

FYI revenue passenger requires PTC. Last I knew INRD didn't need PTC.  Put it together from there in regards to any startup passenger service.

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IN1312

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #202 on: May 02, 2015, 01:00:08 AM »
Can somebody please explain the difference between PTC and CTC? 

CSX_CO

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #203 on: May 02, 2015, 01:58:46 AM »
Can somebody please explain the difference between PTC and CTC?

CTC is using signals to tell the train to go and how fast.  PTC makes sure the train goes and stops where it should.  In theory PTC will eventually render lineside signals superfluous, and everything can be run with PTC.  Obviously a long way from that point.

doublestacks

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #204 on: May 02, 2015, 02:31:25 AM »
CTC is using signals to tell the train to go and how fast.  PTC makes sure the train goes and stops where it should.  In theory PTC will eventually render lineside signals superfluous, and everything can be run with PTC.  Obviously a long way from that point.

how does it "make sure"?
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CSX_CO

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #205 on: May 02, 2015, 03:22:15 AM »
how does it "make sure"?

A Google search would go more in depth, but uses GPS to know the trains position relative to its track authority and other trains.  If the operator isn't preparing to stop or slow the train in advance of a restriction, PTC will stop it.

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hallbf

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #206 on: May 02, 2015, 07:19:47 AM »
FYI revenue passenger requires PTC. Last I knew INRD didn't need PTC.  Put it together from there in regards to any startup passenger service.

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santa fe warbonnet

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #207 on: May 02, 2015, 11:13:57 AM »
In reference to revenue passenger trains require PTC, this is true, but railroads can file for an exemption from the PTC requirement.  New England Central, which host the Vermonter, filed for and received an exemption to install PTC on its railroad.

CSX_CO

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #208 on: May 02, 2015, 11:32:34 AM »
In reference to revenue passenger trains require PTC, this is true, but railroads can file for an exemption from the PTC requirement.  New England Central, which host the Vermonter, filed for and received an exemption to install PTC on its railroad.

So you see INRD filing for an exemption, or see a bunch of signal activity around the line, then you'll know something's up. Until either of those two things happen, INRD passenger service is a railfans dream.  I doubt Iowa Pacific is going to want to foot the bill for PTC install and INRD sure isn't going to if it isn't their operations requiring it.

indyspy

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #209 on: May 02, 2015, 11:43:33 AM »
PTC is an overlay ontop of the CTC signals.

With the system the freight railroads have chose, the train has a GPS, the locomotive reports this GPS location to the signal system via a 220MHZ link to the signal system. The signal system collects all the GPS locations and checks for trains getting too close to one another. A warning is sent over the 220MHZ link first. If a condition exists where the PTC needs to slow a train down. A command is sent over 220MHZ to the loco to perform the penalty application if a warning isn't heeded.

The big snafu so far is that the system is wireless. 220MHZ is pretty decent, but the Feds (FCC) are only allowing them 5 watts on the band. So antennas are being placed in places much closer then the railroads wish.

If the engine should not be able to communicate with the PTC, you get immediately hit with a penalty application.

There are right now, 2 major incompatible PTC systems. A third system exists that has been in development for years on the Michigan line.

ETMS type (This is the type described above)

ACSES type. This is the system chosen by Amtrak for it's NEC lines. This is a WIRED system. This system is overlayed ontop of the PRR cab signal system. It uses passive transponders on the ROW to enforce the civil speed restrictions. The PRR cab signals handle all the collision avoidance and signal enforcement. Most commuter rail roads on the Eastern Seaboard will be using it as well. This system is MASSIVELY infrastructure heavy. It requires a LOT of hardware and install to make it work.

ITCS type. The oddball. This is the system on the Michigan line that Amtrak and GE have been trying to get to work for years. It's a wireless system on 220MHZ but it works slightly different then ETMS as it's meant for 110MPH operation.

Also, any railroad who had PRR type cab signals installed before the PTC law came into effect is completely exempt from PTC requirements. This means the ex CR cab signaled lines, some UP lines, the FEC, and the CSX RF&P wont need PTC.
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doublestacks

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #210 on: May 03, 2015, 04:04:25 PM »
im surprised they trust PTC so much. GPS does have its moments where it does not work when changing over satellites during orbit. Its usally about 2pm during the day. Atleast thats how it was for GPS grading equipment, i dont see why it would be any different for a transponder on a train.
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indyspy

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Re: Hoosier State to end
« Reply #211 on: May 03, 2015, 04:28:10 PM »
Yeah and tunnels are a problem.

I forget the workaround they are using for below ground tracks. Will have to look.
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