Hoosier State to end

[trainmaster53]

With that many Riders. How can they Justify cutting this train.

[Chessieguy42]

With that many Riders. How can they Justify cutting this train.

My guess would be $.

[MattMcC]

This is not INDOT.  This is the feds.   I have got to know some of the INDOT Rail folks over the past year from being involved in a logistics committee and a trade organization, and I can assure you they've put a lot of time and effort into saving and improving the Hoosier State.  There may be some of our move conservative elected officials happy with this turn of events, but nothing I've seen leads me to believe that INDOT is happy about seeing their hard work circle the drain.

It may be the Feds on this particular issue, but the State of Indiana has been anti-rail for decades, beginning with the 1985 State Rail Plan that was forecasting (hoping?) for abandonment across the state. Indiana refused to pick up any cost related to the Valpo Dummies and let them die 25 years ago and the NICTD has had to beg for even the smallest of assistance. Indiana often acts as if NW Indiana belongs to Illinois. The state and city of Indianapolis should have moved forward with commuter rail to Noblesville to the north, Muncie to the east and Terre Haute to the west years ago. But that might involve taxes and a study of macroeconomics beyond what many are willing to consider.

[scraphauler]

It may be the Feds on this particular issue, but the State of Indiana has been anti-rail for decades, beginning with the 1985 State Rail Plan that was forecasting (hoping?) for abandonment across the state. Indiana refused to pick up any cost related to the Valpo Dummies and let them die 25 years ago and the NICTD has had to beg for even the smallest of assistance. Indiana often acts as if NW Indiana belongs to Illinois. The state and city of Indianapolis should have moved forward with commuter rail to Noblesville to the north, Muncie to the east and Terre Haute to the west years ago. But that might involve taxes and a study of macroeconomics beyond what many are willing to consider.

All true. And least we forget, the legislation that was passed to allow Marion County and surrounding counties to establish a joint transportation district specifically prohibits light rail.  But recently things have started to slowly change. INDOTS effort to save the Hoosier is real.  It's just got caught up in a storm of Federal politics.

With that many Riders. How can they Justify cutting this train.

Who is they? 

Remember, Federal law says Indiana must pay for this train. Indiana is willing to do so but want better level of amenities than Amtrak has shown any genuine interest in providing. So a regulatory agency (FRA) steps in with some contrived rules that quash Indiana's plan.

As much as some folks on this board get riled up over the EPA and their actions toward coal, it's somewhat amazing that the implications of a Federal Regulatory Agency writing it's own laws is simply glossed over so we can complain about our state not bring pro rail and our little choo choo going away.

[xgap]

I'm in agreement with MattMcC, plus NO vision then or still now for the future. And as Scrap states, this latest obstacle plus many others mean IMO, NO new viable passenger rail service to happen in this state. Woulda shoulda, if a few nickels could have been thrown at the Valpo Dummies for continued service and a Chicago-Indy route(pick one PRR, Monon, NYC) for dedicated passenger trains, things may have been very different today. Not going to happen now, DONE.

[MrFSS]

Amtrak will still sell me a ticket on the HS way past 4/1. Normally if service is unavailable for any reason (track maintenance, etc) they show SOLD-OUT!
 

[Amtk427]

Amtrak will still sell me a ticket on the HS way past 4/1. Normally if service is unavailable for any reason (track maintenance, etc) they show SOLD-OUT!

This may be something or nothing at all.  But I have noticed the last couple of weeks,  the entire Cardinal consist being used even on days the Hoosier State is suppose to be running.  This isn't a maintenance move, it's the regular bag, sleeper, lounge 3 or 4 coach train.

[ckpcpqq]

Amtrak will still sell me a ticket on the HS way past 4/1. Normally if service is unavailable for any reason (track maintenance, etc) they show SOLD-OUT!

Amtrak has stated that they will continue to run the train on a month-by-month basis.  Eventually, they would like to work out a contract with INDOT (without Iowa Pacific being involved).  But then there are those pesky FRA rules to deal with.

I continue to think that the Dept of Transportation will do something to force the FRA to back down on this, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

[Bob Durnell]

With that many Riders. How can they Justify cutting this train.

WHAT many?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the HS runs three times a week and has 36,000 passengers, thats 115 people per train start, and you see that only about HALF the passengers go beyond Lafayette!  In other words, that's a WHOLE LOT of NOTHING.

[JAGGERS]

The Hoosier State runs four times per week, the Cardinal operates the other three.

[1976]

This may be something or nothing at all.  But I have noticed the last couple of weeks,  the entire Cardinal consist being used even on days the Hoosier State is suppose to be running.  This isn't a maintenance move, it's the regular bag, sleeper, lounge 3 or 4 coach train.

Maybe you've just seen it on Monday night and Tuesday morning? Other than that it's been Hoosier State equipment.

[Bob Durnell]

The Hoosier State runs four times per week, the Cardinal operates the other three.

OK, that makes the numbers even MORE horrific!  That gets us down to 87 people per train start, which means that for south of Lafayette southbound and north of Lafayette northbound, there may only be 40 people on the train.

[1976]

OK, that makes the numbers even MORE horrific!  That gets us down to 87 people per train start, which means that for south of Lafayette southbound and north of Lafayette northbound, there may only be 40 people on the train.

While you're off on your latest anti-Amtrak troll rant, you should at least correct your two statements to show that the train is fullest between Lafayette in Chicago. Can't see the screen past your own hate?

[ScottFlood]

And now Senator Coats is intervening in the matter to preserve service ....

Story from the Star:
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2015/03/12/dan-coats-climbs-aboard-effort-save-hoosier-state-line/70209560/

[Bob Durnell]

While you're off on your latest anti-Amtrak troll rant, you should at least correct your two statements to show that the train is fullest between Lafayette in Chicago. Can't see the screen past your own hate?

There is no hate involved, I don't HATE passenger trains at all.  I hate PAYING for passenger trains that serve little purpose. I'm just looking at the cold hard honest facts, something some people refuse to to do.  If you want to skew the numbers towards Chicago-Lafayette, (and you may well be right, it's a little hard to tell by the numbers given),  that just makes Lafeyette-Indy all that more pathetic.  The point is, only about half the riders make the full trip on what is a pretty short haul in the first place, making the financials that much worse. The only way to make this dog look better is if you can get more people to ride it, a LOT more, and I frankly don't think that is remotely possible given the population density in the corridor and the allowable train speeds on the route.  In order to beat your competition, you have to offer at least ONE thing that is better than they are, and this train offers nothing.

[MrFSS]

Bob - you are correct about the speed.  Amtrak runs several buses between IND and CHI, daily, and they all do the trip in about an hour less than the train takes, when it is on time.  And, that is Amtrak station to Amtrak station for the bus, too.

[trainmaster53]

Am I missing something here. I see 17,682 Riding the Hoosier State out of Indianapolis. I see 13,731 People Riding the Hoosier State out of Lafayette. These are Ticket Sales.  That is 31,413 Tickets Sold on the Hoosier State in 2013.  On the Cardinal there are 17,618 Ticket sales out of  Indianapolis and Lafayette had 10,257 in Ticket Sales on the Cardinal. That is a Total of 27,875 tickets in 2013. Chicago had 34,413 Tickets sold on the Hoosier State.  The Cardinal out of Chicago sold 53,987 Tickets. That is only a Difference of 19,574 Tickets between Indianapolis to New York City.

[Amtk427]

What seems to have lost in all this back and forth.  Are the people like me who enjoy riding the train.  If I want to take the bus...I would take the bus,  as it's been pointed out many times the bus is faster.  That's not the point.  I much prefer riding the train.  I'm over 6 ft tall bus seats are just cramped for me.  If I want to see I 65 I could just drive.
It sounds like INDOT is trying to get more people in the seats.  But that can never happen if the train goes away all together.  So I hope you don't mind when I raise my hand and say "excuse me" what about the folks that actually ride the Hoosier State.  I'm not so sure that a lot of post's in here, have even given it a try.

[trainmaster53]

Me and the Wife have ridden the Hoosier State. We enjoyed the Trip to Chicago and back to Indy. Since the Mother in Lay has lived with us due to Health Problems. We have not been able to ride the Hoosier State in a while. We both are big fans of Passenger Trains. I agree with you about the Driving. I will Not drive to Chicago again. I use to work for a Private Ambulance Service and did many Transports to Chicago. Never Again. If we get the chance to go to Chicago again, It will be by Train if the Wife's health holds out. I have a Friend who is getting ready to go to California by Train from Indianapolis. He is worried about the Hoosier State on his return trip to Indy. So Yes We agree with what you say about all the People who would rather go by Train than by Bus. It seems that you see in  the News that  a Bus Crashed somewhere. One Crashed again Today in Henryville Indiana. How many has that been just in Indiana? Several. Too Many for my liking.

[scraphauler]

Like the train or not.  Agree with its funding or not.  Ride the train or not.   The fact of the matter is The State of Indiana for whatever reason you wish to believe WANTS to fund the Hoosier State.  And they are being prevented in doing so by what appears to be an over reaching regulatory agency trying to make up it's own rules and regulations as it goes.

The Hoosier State may or may not be a whole lot of nothing - everyone can decide that for themselves.  I would hope a regulatory agency taking on legislative and executive duties to make up the rules as they go would NOT be considered a whole lot of nothing by most.   The railroad industry faces a lot of legitimate challenges that go through the proper channels - big stuff like PTC and little stuff like a horrible bill known as HR 844.  The last thing we need as an industry is for the FRA to start making up their own rules on the fly.