Author Topic: Shelbyville - CSX  (Read 80310 times)

IU_Tower

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2008, 09:54:47 AM »
There has been a long string of auto racks parked on the Hill yard siding for quite a while. Are these racks there in anticipation of Honda, or are they there because of a downturn in business? 

Also, another long string of racks has been sitting on Brightwood Siding since the 4th.

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scraphauler

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2008, 10:16:25 AM »
Racks at Hill are bi-level racks which haul trucks and SUV's - Honda would not use those for Civics.  Likely these are GM pool cars parked due to the soft truck/suv market - lot's of those squirrelled away all over the place. 

By the way, CSXT still out of service between yard in Shelbyville and CIND property line due to track conditions.  Still no word on when CSXT plans on restoring service. 
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CONRAIL1981

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2008, 09:27:04 AM »
A little off topic but I was reading about the Delaware-Lackawanna in TRAINS and they sure did do a lot when CONRAIL left the picture and are an example of what a regional railroad should be as they put it.  Its a shame not more railroads in my home state do the same as this ROW is an example.  Over there at the DL they marketed big time and it paid off as each year they were adding customers and upgrading track.  Its a shame really when I see things like this,  but you need the traffic to justify and it seems a lot of the railroads seem to think everyone will come to them... Doesn't usually work like that with locals!
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midland sub

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2008, 05:02:47 PM »
If anyone keeps old issues of Trains, dig through the piles for the October 2004 issue. The Passenger column by Bob Johnston mentions the former Big Four between Indy and Cincinnati. The column main focus of the column was about the just departed Kentucky Cardinal. The line comes up at the end of the article about it being part of a future high speed rail link. Long story short there's a great quote about Shelbyville:

"The former Big Four speedway between Indy and Cincy which once enabled NYC's crack James Witcomb Riley to cover the 302 miles between Cincy and Columbus in five-and-a-half hours. Now owned by Central of Indiana, the line's heavy but jointed rails slice through the countryside on a wide right-of-way with barely a curve- the perfect venue for 110 mph trains that could chop two hours off the Riley's best time.
But the rails jiggle in all directions because they're spiked to ties rotten enough to be rejected by any self-respective landscaper. "I don't think people around here would be interested in riding those tracks, said Dan Robbins of Shelbyville. He owns the Depot art school and gallery, which occupies Shelbyville's brick passenger station."

At least the tracks south of town have been rebuilt.

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2008, 10:43:44 PM »
Scraphauler,

The red sign is no longer posted on the East end of the yard that I can find. Doesn't look to me like anything has been done to the track east of the yard on out towards Progress Road crossing. There are quite a few new ties sitting out there between the yard and the crossing in the high weeds. You can't hardly see the track any longer for the weeds in that section.

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Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2008, 05:57:56 PM »
Correction to previous post. The red flag is alive and doing well. It is now stuck in the ground about 10 feet east of the Amos Road overpass. It's just much harder to see in that position than where it was posted previously about a couple hundred yards further east. That just gives the slugs on the CSX daily enough room to get by the turnout when they are coming back around to the front for the return trip to the big city each day.

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Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

Jeffrey J Mitchell

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2008, 09:12:11 AM »
I feel the longer this sits the less likely it will be used.  >:( I can't help but think there would have to be some use for a direct shot to and from Indy on this line other than Shelbyville.

scraphauler

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2008, 09:23:43 AM »
We had a couple misc. loads generate on CIND that where headed out the P&E from Indy, so naturally I requested a rate over Shelbyville/Beech Grove.  Marketing could not/would not give me a rate over that routing, telling me same thing that I've been hearing from both CSXT and CIND operating folks - line is out of service and there is NO word on if or when it will be returned to service.  

To me it looks like this line will remain out of service until RailAmerica (or Honda) comes up with a significant chunk of traffic that has to move that direction and they sit down with CSXT and force the issue.   CIND does not have it's own management staff - they are managed by IORY.  IORY has enough issues on their plate right now and it would appear to me that trying to force CSXT to restore a section of track for at most 2 cars per day simply never make it even close to the top of the "to do" list.  And without CIND pushing the issue, why would CSXT even consider restoring this line - it is not needed for their dead end operation.
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CSX_CO

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2008, 10:53:31 AM »
Out of curiosity...

Is the former NYC between Shelbyville and Cincy leased or wholely owned by CERA?  As in did Conrail sell it outright, or was it one of those lease deals?

*If* CSX wanted, and this is a BIG if, it would seem plausible for CSX to 'retake' the line, and they could have 'directional' running between Cincy and Indy.  Go one way on the B&O and the other on the NYC.  Of course, that is a HUGE if.

Thanks in advance
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CIOR

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2008, 11:34:57 AM »
It was purchased by CIND/CERA outright. 
I was also told by a gentleman very privy to information on this that CIND/CERA had the option to purchase the remaining line to Hill yard if Conrail was to sell it. 
Now, I'm sure Scrap can tell us more on that.

Remember, CIND/CERA had the line up on the abandonment docket and when they sold out it was pulled back from the docket.

scraphauler

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2008, 12:15:50 PM »
Yes, Central Properties purchased the line outright from Conrail in 1991.  This was a good old fashion sale - CIND owns everything, not some sort of lease or goofy you buy the track, we keep the property deal like CSXT is so found of.

CIND bought from MP 0 to MP 81, the L&A Running track from Lawrenceburg Jct to Lawrenceburg, the Westport Industrial track from Greensburg to Craig, and some disconnected remnant pieces of the Michigan branch from the main line north to I 74 in Greensburg.  Subsequently, CIND has sold MP 0 to MP 0.25 to Hamilton County OH (The Bengal's Practice field covers part of this now), The L&A Branch from Lawrenceburg Jct to Dearborn Tower to Argosy Casino (for more than they paid Conrail for entire deal to start with I might add) (CIND still serves Lawrenceburg via trackage rights over the B&O), the L&A from Dearborn tower to West Lawrenceburg to the City of Lawrenceburg for riverfront redevelopment, and some of the misc. Michigan branch pieces.

Included in the deal with CR was good old fashion trackage rights (very very few restrictions) over the Shelbyville Secondary to Beech Grove, through Indianapolis, and up the Frankfort Secondary to Frankfort.  CIND was also given the rights to physically serve Amtrak Beech Grove (which they have utilized a few times over the years), and was given the right to market/solicit business at certain customers along the Shelbyville Secondary in Indy, including Citizens Gas & Coke (which was exercised a couple times in the mid 90's with coal off the Ohio River).   As part of the deal, the "Wall Track" at Hill Yard was lease to CIND, switches reinstalled and track maintained BY CIND to be used as the interchange track between CIND and CR.  The arrangement has either formally been changed or CSXT/RA is flat out ignoring it as CSXT did quite a bit of work to the track over the last year or so and now uses it for car storage.   Interchange work was only being done at Shelbyville as carrier convenience prior to the shut down for Honda - interchange point for waybilling and rating is still Beech Grove. 

If I remember the sales agreement correctly (95% sure I do), CIND has right of first refusal to purchase outright any property CIND has trackage rights over or marketing rights to should Conrail (or it's successor) ever offer for sale or lease, or place up for abandonment.  So, if CSXT ever wants to sell the Shelbyville line or the Frankfort line, they need to deal with RailAmerica first (unless the deal has changed since 2000)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 08:32:34 AM by scraphauler »
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CSX_CO

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2008, 08:33:38 PM »
Yes, Central Properties purchased the line outright from Conrail in 1991.  This was a good old fashion sale - CIND owns everything, not some sort of lease or goofy you buy the track, we keep the property deal like CSXT is so found of.

Thanks for clearing that up.  Not that CSX would do it, but on the way to "Summerrail" in Cincy this past weekend I wondered if CSX could pull a 'fast one' and take the line back in light of the Honda plant.  Its interesting that CSX gets accolades from Honda for service, yet none of that new traffic appears to be headed to CSX in Indy.  Oh well, there is always Marysville...

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2008, 10:19:42 PM »
Speaking of Summerrail at the CUT(non Indiana railroading) that was quite a deal. Those folks have quite a clubroom there in Tower A. Got some really nice pics of NS and CSX moving in, out and around the yard. Saw the intermodal boys dump one on the tarmac as well. Hope it was empty.

That also reminds me of the Fall Color excursion trip this November 1 going to Batesville. I understand the last time that trip ran up the CIND you could have outwalked the train to Batesville from what some folks were telling me in Tower A on Saturday. I can only imagine that this will not be the case this time with all the upgrades to the ROW. That bad piece of CSX track on the east side of Shelbyville has limited the side trip from Batesville to only Greensburg instead of Shelbyville as originally planned. I keep checking with the outfit that is running the excursion trip and as of now they will not extend the trip on to Shelbyville.

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Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

Jeffrey J Mitchell

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2008, 02:35:15 PM »
Nothing earth shattering but CSX had a high rail at the Progress Rd. crossing today. Just sitting in his truck but at least there is something railroad related going on at that location....  :o

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2008, 09:26:04 PM »
You know, that is a highpoint for the week here in Shelbyville. Yesterday, I noticed that they left the local on the "mainline" during lunch. We just don't have a lot of rr going down this way. We have to take what we have and make the most of it. Whenever that highrailer comes to Shelbyville he always seems to wind up out there at the end of the line during lunch period. Have you noticed the sign on the electrical enclosure at Broadway Street crossing? It makes it appear that the enclosure is the CSX office for Shelbyville the way it reads. We at least had some variety when the CIND came to town once or twice a week.

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Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2008, 08:55:42 PM »
New highpoint for the week here in Shelbyville. We had a local in today(Saturday) being led by CSX1541(formerly Conrail still painted in Conrail colors and the Conrail road number still visible underneath the CSX road number). Must not have been the regular crew since they hightailed it out of town after running the engine around in the yard. Usually, they stay for lunch.

I also added a pic showing the "new" position for the Red Flag just East of Amos Road overpass. Photo taken from the overpass looking East.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2008, 06:15:41 PM »
Looks like they left the daily Shelbyville run in the yard for the night. Another highpoint.

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Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

scraphauler

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2008, 04:36:27 PM »
This past week while working on routing options for a deal our leasing department is work on, I had the opportunity to revisit the possibility of routing traffic over the west end of CIND.  This would have been a one time movement of a SIGNIFICANT number of cars sometime this fall.  It's not going to happen and the prospects for future traffic are NOT GOOD at this time. 

CSXT will NOT quote rates over a Beech Grove interchange with CIND.  Since the are no contracts that specify this routing, this effectively embargoes the interchange.  The INRD/CIND and ISRR/CIND interchanges over Indy are still valid, however, the CSXT intermediate switch charge has expired and none of the involved carriers are too excited about sitting down and working out a new fee schedule.

Further complicating the issue is out of service track.  As we are all aware, CSXT is out of service between just east of the Shelbyville yard and the CIND property line.  There is still no timetable for restoring this track.  I also learned this week that the CIND is also out of service, and has been for "several weeks".  They apparently have a serious washout (or washouts) that "you can drive an ATV under". Sounds like they may have lost a culvert or small bridge.  Not sure exactly where washout is located, but the it was explained to me, line is out of service west of the Rex Pipeline pipe yard.  RailAmerica has started engineering work to repair this and once they know what it is going to cost, they will determine when they will repair.  Earliest indication of when repairs could start is 11/1, as right now all efforts are focused on the Honda startup. 

Based on the conversations I had this week, I am now of the opinion that you will not see the any traffic returning to the line between Honda and Shelbyville until such time CSXT decides to sell the balance of the line to CIND.  That is of course unless Honda decides they want to go that way and forces the issue, and I simply don't see that happening unless CIND falls flat on it's face on Cincinnati service (and RailAmerica has too much riding on this traffic to allow that to happen)


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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2009, 08:00:34 PM »
I won't bother to post new pictures that look exactly like the last two sets of pictures showing the broken crossing guard arms at the Broadway street crossing in Shelbyville. Scroll back a page or two for photos. Last nights high winds took those crossing guards out once again. When they are in the raised position they are probably most vulnerable to high winds since these crossing guards are stand quite high. They do fully block two lanes of traffic when they are in the down position. I can't imagine that it is cheaper to keep replacing them versus "engineering" a better solution. For the length of those crossing guards and the way they are constructed it is a foregone conclusion that whenever the wind blows these things are doomed. I can't believe that it is SOP for CSX to just keep throwing good money down the drain versus a better designed crossing guard. I am sure they have crossing guards in other places that span across two traffic lanes and don't suffer the constant replacement costs that this crossing does.

The only thing I can think of is that over the next couple of months this whole crossing is going to change due to an upgrade and overhaul to SR44 from east of I74 to this crossing. Maybe CSX(or whoever finances the SR44 overhaul) has a better solution for the crossing, maybe not.

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CSX_CO

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Re: Shelbyville - CSX
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2009, 08:11:06 PM »
I can't imagine that it is cheaper to keep replacing them versus "engineering" a better solution. For the length of those crossing guards and the way they are constructed it is a foregone conclusion that whenever the wind blows these things are doomed. I can't believe that it is SOP for CSX to just keep throwing good money down the drain versus a better designed crossing guard. I am sure they have crossing guards in other places that span across two traffic lanes and don't suffer the constant replacement costs that this crossing does.

When it costs upwards of $500,000 to upgrade crossing equipment, that buys a lot of crossing gates for a crossing that sees 2 trains a day across it.  Once into Vine Yard and once back out of it.

The solution may be a cantalivered crossing gate that would afford more protection when the gates start moving back and forth.  Now you are talking serious money.  Again, fiberglass crossing gates are cheap compared to a 'better engineered solution'.

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