Author Topic: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?  (Read 5004 times)

indyspy

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2013, 01:54:03 PM »
Well you might be able to run the Cardinal separate from the Hoosier State. But I think that would be all the equipment situation will allow.
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CSX_CO

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2013, 02:00:27 PM »
Well you might be able to run the Cardinal separate from the Hoosier State. But I think that would be all the equipment situation will allow.

But then you wouldn't be offering two trains 7 days a week.  You'd be offering one train in the Cardinal slot on the days it runs, then another that leaves at 0800, 7 days a week.  If AMTRAK proposes running another train the days the Cardinal doesn't run, then how is there the reduction in subsidy?  The 2.9 million right now is for the Hoosier State to 'fill in the gaps' between Cardinal runs, right?  Again, that article is very confusing on what they really want to do.

Then in Chicago you're going to have two departures from CUS at the same time?  Yeah, that's great schedule planning.  Nevermind when the Cardinal is running late, and you're going to need two trains downtown at the same time.

If anything, the article tells us they should back up the departure from Indy (since the rideship for the 2nd train alone is going to be 50,000 over the course of a year) and maybe just add an additional car or two.  But...then CSX freight schedules get impacted as AMTRAK is now running 2 hrs later, and backs everything up on the Monon.

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ScottFlood

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2013, 02:24:03 PM »
Confused me, too, but given the quality of the reportage on this issue, I think the Star may be the source of the confusion. (Not that INDOT isn't skilled in that regard ...)

scraphauler

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2013, 03:30:19 PM »
Skip the Star's reporting and any slant they want to add to it - go straight to the source

http://www.in.gov/indot/3200.htm

The study results are posted on line - it's a 47 page, 11.35 MB report with 4 appendixes.   It's about 1/2 down the page in the Cost Benefit Analysis.  Read it and make your own conclusions (I have not had a chance to read all of it yet, and probably won't until next week some time).

IndyKing

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2013, 03:56:09 PM »
"Amtrak’s current single-train service departs Indianapolis at 6 a.m. and leaves Chicago at 5:45 p.m. It draws about 37,000 riders a year and needs a state subsidy of about $2.9 million, the study found.

Adding a second daily train departing Indianapolis at 8 a.m. and leaving Chicago at 5:30 p.m., according to the study, would boost ridership to 88,000 and lower the subsidy to $2.8 million a year.

Another option, adding a second daily train leaving Indianapolis at 8 a.m. and leaving Chicago at 3:30 p.m., would boost ridership to 86,000 a year, the study found. The subsidy would stay at about $2.9 million a year."

I wonder on what kind of ridership their analysis is based?  Two trains leaving Chicago within 15 minutes of each other at that time of day only makes sense to me for commuters.  With day trippers and shoppers I would have thought that having the second train leave Chicago later in the evening would allow people to have dinner up there and might make train travel more attractive to them.
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E-Unit

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2013, 04:49:32 PM »
How does Amtrak work out track usage with CSX, ect? Do they have the right to run multiple daily trains at will if they choose to add more?

Also any departure past 6pm CT would put arrival past midnight ET. Not sure if anyone would ride that.  The 6AM, 8AM, 330PM, 545PM sounds better. The second train set could use cabbage to avoid a quick turn around. 
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xgap

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2013, 11:42:59 PM »
Any updates?

1976

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2013, 11:48:05 PM »
Any updates?
Still negotiating. I'm sure it will be all over the news if something happens.

monon43

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Courtesy Trains Magazine - Published: October 3, 2013

INDIANAPOLIS – Indiana and Amtrak are making progress towards a short-term agreement to keep the Hoosier State in operation between Indianapolis and Chicago until a comprehensive funding deal is reached, a spokesman for the Indiana Department of Transportation tells the Associated Press.

The Hoosier State makes a 196-mile trip between Indianapolis and Chicago four days a week on the days the Chicago-Washington Cardinal does not operate. Its stops in Indiana are at Indianapolis, Crawfordsville, Lafayette, Rensselaer, and Dyer.

Will Wingfield, a spokesman for the Indiana Department of Transportation, says the agency and Amtrak are continuing discussions with local communities on a short-term agreement that would serve as a stopgap measure for a few months until a long-term deal is reached on the line, which last year carried nearly 37,000 passengers.

“The negotiations are moving forward productively and positively on our side, and I feel that’s the case with the other parties as well, so it’s just a matter of coming to an agreement,” he says. Wingfield says a short-term agreement is still needed on how much Indiana and the communities along the line would pay to keep it running. Most of the communities the line serves have said they’re willing to provide financial support, and INDOT’s goal is to boost ridership while aiming to minimize state support for the line, he says.

Wingfield says a state-funded analysis released last week of Amtrak’s various proposed options for improving the line and increasing its ridership “would form a starting point for longer term discussions” on a comprehensive funding agreement.

The Midwest High Speed Rail Association will discuss the ongoing negotiations during a Thursday conference call with the Hoosier State line’s supporters, says Christian Ficara, the Chicago-based association’s organizational director. He said supporters plan to rally next week before a legislative committee meets Oct. 16 to discuss state funding for the line. “There’s a pretty comprehensive backing to sustain this train. These are mayors throughout northwest Indiana, families in those communities, university students at Purdue University and Wabash College, environmental organizations and unions,” Ficara says. “We want the legislators to know this is something we care about incredibly much.”

JAGGERS

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2013, 08:59:01 AM »
The town of Dyer has chosen not to participate in the funding of the Hoosier State. Their share was to be $5000 per month. Since the ridership for last year was just a little more than 2900, they felt it wasn't worth it.

CSX_CO

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2013, 11:26:45 AM »
The town of Dyer has chosen not to participate in the funding of the Hoosier State. Their share was to be $5000 per month. Since the ridership for last year was just a little more than 2900, they felt it wasn't worth it.

If the 'shortfall' for that station is $5000 for 2900 riders, why can't AMTRAK just charge $1.75 to $2.00 more per ticket for passengers boarding there?  I don't get why AMTRAK has to keep coming to the tax payers to keep their operation going, when a small increase to those using the service, will help pay for it?

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1976

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2013, 11:30:14 AM »
Yet they're building a brand new station...

CIND 2254

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2013, 11:33:55 AM »
If the 'shortfall' for that station is $5000 for 2900 riders, why can't AMTRAK just charge $1.75 to $2.00 more per ticket for passengers boarding there?  I don't get why AMTRAK has to keep coming to the tax payers to keep their operation going, when a small increase to those using the service, will help pay for it?

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Total shortfall for the year is $60k based on $5k per month over the 12 months in which the 2900 ride.
Modeling High Hood GP30s on the CERA based in Kokomo circa. 1996-1998.

CSX_CO

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2013, 11:39:21 AM »
Total shortfall for the year is $60k based on $5k per month over the 12 months in which the 2900 ride.

So the total 'subsidy' required per paying passenger, over and above ticket price, is $20 to $21 a rider then.

At that point, buy them a bus ticket to a station on the IC or CSS&SB if going to Chicago, or just a bus ticket to Indy.  AMTRAK could come out ahead.

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xgap

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2013, 12:11:47 PM »
The town of Dyer has chosen not to participate in the funding of the Hoosier State. Their share was to be $5000 per month. Since the ridership for last year was just a little more than 2900, they felt it wasn't worth it.
Does that mean it is no longer a stop?

CSX_CO

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Re: "Skin in the game" for Hoosier State?
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2013, 01:32:56 PM »
Does that mean it is no longer a stop?

The article I saw said Dyer was going to remain a stop.

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