Author Topic: Shelbyville - A little history disappears  (Read 6504 times)

INprinter

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2009, 09:14:24 PM »
Nathan,

Thanks for the added info. As long as you keep an open mind and don't form opinions without facts it's hard to get your parade rained on. There is probably a very good reason why these markers(the only two I could find in town) are on the same street withing two blocks of each other. I'll keep digging locally with some local historians and find out what their purpose was. I just want to see if anyone can validate that concrete posts like these might have served some purpose in marking property lines or ROW's of railroads. I would really like to get some photographic evidence of markers like these someplace else in Indiana along a railroad ROW(active or abandoned). Mile Markers along the old CCCStL/NYC or the PRR that went through Shelbyville didn't look anything like these markers. They were much larger in cross section but about the same height and the the mile marker indication was molded into the surface or painted on. These posts appear to have had a plaque of some type attached to side surface near the top. Anyway, they securely imbedded in the ground and don't appear to be going anywhere very easily. The one has been hit by vehicles several times and still survives.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

INprinter

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2009, 07:58:44 PM »
There's lots of infrastructure and road work happening on the east side of Shelbyville these days. If you travel through Shelbyville on SR44 you can experience the delays due to the work. Parallel to SR44 ran the old Shelbyville and Rushville RR which later became part of the JM&I, PRR, PennCentral, Conrail and then abandoned. It has slowly been disappearing over the past couple of years and I have made some previous posts with pictures trying to document it. I spent a couple of hours out there recently getting some pictures of what is left, or at least how it has changed with the progress of the new roadway. In some areas the terrain has changed considerably. All of the pictures are looking along the old ROW facing basically west towards downtown. I started out by the SR44 and I74 interchange and took pictures at about every grade crossing in between there and the Amos Road area.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

INprinter

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2009, 08:03:55 PM »
A few more pics on towards downtown Shelbyville...

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2009, 04:18:17 PM »
Well, they finally got old Milepost marker C23 that was just to the west of Burger King. Looks like the grass sodding project along the new sidewalks did it in. I doubt that anyone tried to save it or put it in the local museum(I probably would have put it in my front yard). That MP survived a lot of years of railroading and almost at least 2 road widening projects. I guess we all have to go sometime. Even when they were digging and putting in new sewer and water pipes along that stretch the heavy equipment never even as much as grazed it. But get some guy who can't cut sod in around an 8" square post and there it goes. Actually, for the most part the original grading for the old ROW is still there.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2010, 08:45:23 PM »
What did the ge plant on 44 produce.I wroked at Kennedy carliner in 1993 also known as KCL.We got train cars of plastic resin it was trucked from indy.To bad i love old trains I read in ghost railroads of indiana,that this was the Louisville ky cutoff.This was when there was a lot of freight like in the early 1900,s.I live in new castle at cambridge city better yet Dublin junction were this tyed into the Main between Richmond and indianapolis they called it the jeff line.Cause it tied in at columbus indiana .I always thought maybe at rays crossing there was a foundation That looked whatever was on it burn,t to the ground.But there looked like a baggage or storage shed was on the back white with green roof know anything about it thank you enjoyed all the talk. 

INprinter

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2010, 09:58:32 PM »
What did the ge plant on 44 produce.I wroked at Kennedy carliner in 1993 also known as KCL.We got train cars of plastic resin it was trucked from indy.To bad i love old trains I read in ghost railroads of indiana,that this was the Louisville ky cutoff.This was when there was a lot of freight like in the early 1900,s.I live in new castle at cambridge city better yet Dublin junction were this tyed into the Main between Richmond and indianapolis they called it the jeff line.Cause it tied in at columbus indiana .I always thought maybe at rays crossing there was a foundation That looked whatever was on it burn,t to the ground.But there looked like a baggage or storage shed was on the back white with green roof know anything about it thank you enjoyed all the talk. 

The GE plant made 2 products: Calrod wire for appliance heaters(most of this went to GE Appliance Park in Louisville) and the other portion of the plant produced industrial heating units and elements. GE and KCL would have been serviced by the PRR. By the time I moved into Shelbyville I only remember seeing an old PC switch engine constantly derailed on the St. Joe street spur or the line going east out SR44 to service the GE plant. That's the line that went to Rushville in that direction. Not sure what went in and out by rail at GE(didn't pay that much attention to RR stuff back then other than the constant derailments) but KCL mostly had incoming plastic resin hoppers until the tracks were pulled. In the really old days KCL more or less got their big start by producing paper carliners for RR boxcars. Having worked at KCL you probably already know that little tidbit of info.

I have no idea what the structure base would be at Ray's Crossing. In the really old days it was a stop on the line that went to Rushville. There used to be a silo manufacturer at Ray's Crossing when I first moved to Shelbyville in the '70s. Think there is some sort of agricultural business still in operation there now. Hope this helps.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

LEW

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2010, 10:24:41 PM »
I belive the top photos are land line markers. The other photos are fence posts. LEW

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2010, 10:54:28 PM »
I remember for years and years a majority of this stuff being around.
I even remember seeing tracks that used to curve around down by the new pool.

Does anyone actually have a Track diagram of Shelbyville?

And you know, it's also sad that CSX let that line go to s***.
From what I've heard from old heads, that track was build for speed.
Look at it now. :/

And Was the NYC line from Indy to Shelbyville double track until Vine tower?

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CSX_CO

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2010, 01:35:22 PM »
I remember for years and years a majority of this stuff being around.
I even remember seeing tracks that used to curve around down by the new pool.

Does anyone actually have a Track diagram of Shelbyville?

And you know, it's also sad that CSX let that line go to s***.
From what I've heard from old heads, that track was build for speed.
Look at it now. :/

And Was the NYC line from Indy to Shelbyville double track until Vine tower?

I think the double track ended somewhere near "The Grove", at least with the installation of CTC on the line.    Coming from the west, I believe it was double track at least out past "Acton" at one time though, as there are still bridges in place for double track. I think double track ended somewhere between Acton and London at one time, but was probably cut back further by NYC, or PC as the line fell out of favor as a thru route.  It was definitely single track between "Vine" Block Station (QSS 86.0) and Vine Tower.  The thru truss bridge in Shelbyville is single track.

Practice Safe CSX

INprinter

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2010, 03:24:25 PM »
Here is a link to some 1950's era CCC&StL track plans. Check out thoroughly the pull down menus at the top of the web page. That will lead you to the track plan that covers the line through Shelbyville. It's a straight line plan so it probably only shows the sidings and spurs sort of cryptically. Hope this is of some help.

Inprinter

http://www.railsandtrails.com/TC/CCCStL/1950c-system/index.html
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

INprinter

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2010, 07:50:15 PM »
Drove out on Miller Ave(SR44W) on the West side of Shelbyville checking out the construction progress of the SR44 road rebuilding project. There have been several old street crossings in that area over the last 100 years or so, mostly for sidings of the old JM&I/PRR/PC line that went south to Columbus. Those sidings mostly serviced the old, long gone furniture factories that dominated the employment opportunities for folks in old Shelbyville. I think the last customer for PC on that spur was probably KCL Corporation(Kennedy Car Liner). That spur shows up on maps back in the early 1880's. While the old roadbed was being dug out for the new road, the rails and ties in my picture , were dugout as well. These have been buried under layers of blacktop for many years and were some of the few remnants left of that spur line.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

INprinter

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2011, 09:33:47 AM »
Well, this could perhaps be a discovery of some Shelbyville Railroad history. I got over to Liberty, IN after seeing some postings by others of some short line railroading in southeastern part of the state. My first stop was in Liberty, IN at the old train station. While at the train station I noticed a concrete obelisk displayed near some other concrete and stone markers at the corner of the train station platform. The obelisk shaped item reminded me of some markers I've seen in several locations around town here in Shelbyville, IN. I thought it curious that they were so similar. When I got home I pulled pictures out of my archives of the concrete obelisks I had seen around town here and compared them to the ones I saw in Liberty, IN. They appear to be identical in size and shape. They also share the same two hole pattern near the top of the obelisk indicating that something like a small plaque might have been mounted on them similar to what you might see on a mile marker post. I never thought about the one's here in Shelbyville as being possibly connected to railroading until I saw the one at the Liberty, IN train station. I always thought they were possibly just hitching posts for horses. The two I have located here in Shelbyville are in the vicinity of one of the oldest and first abandoned RR ROW's in Indiana, The Shelbyville Lateral Railroad. They are less than a block from what I know as the path the ROW followed through this section of town on its journey to the Southwest towards Edinburgh, IN. I have attached several pictures of the obelisks here in Shelbyville and also the one in Liberty. I would sure appreciate hearing from someone that might be able to verify that these really are mile post markers and could they possibly have survived from the 1850's.

Inprinter




The post in the 3rd and 4th pictures is now gone. Intentionally kicked over and cut off at ground level and disposed of. And so it goes...

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

jeb1978

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2011, 03:23:15 PM »
"Multimodalways" has a Conrail ZTS map that includes Shelbyville from 1986:

http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/CR/CR%20ZTS/CR%20SW%20ZTS%2011-1986.pdf

Shelbyville is on page 34.  Shows the various industries, etc.  Unfortunately, the legend for that page is missing, so the industries aren't named. 

The ones at the top for 929, 930 that show the line crossing Route 44 I'm assuming are for GE.

911 through 914 might be Knauf Insulation?

922 through 925, I have no idea.  Looks like something was on the a stub of the old like to Columbus?

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2011, 05:54:11 PM »
Barotli,

922 through 925 appear to be Kennedy Car Liner spurs.

Christian
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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2011, 07:08:11 PM »
Hello Everyone

These four pages were fascinating.  I remember flying on Midway Airlines....long, long before 9/11.  The pilot came on the intercom..."Folks, we'll be heading southeast to Shelbyville, Indiana where we'll turn east and head towards our destination...Philadelphia."  I asked the stewardess if the pilot would come back to my seat...HE DID!!  "Sir", I told him. "You and I are the only people on this airplane who know where Shelbyville, Indiana is."  He laughed.  Said there's a beacon they use for navigation in the south part of the county.

Although I've lived all my life in Chicago, I spent my summers on vacation in Shelbyville.  I rode the train there...usually the Carolina Special.  I remember the Pennsylvania and the New York Central.  We played on the box cars near Noble ST.  I remember when the new station was built.

Today, I'm a retired teacher.  I'm also contractor for the Museum of Science & Industry's Great Train Story HO scale train layout.  I was a subway motorman, I'm a fan of HSR, having travelled to Europe three times to ride them in the last four years.  My grandfather, Samuel Robinson, was one of the original Black residents and his two houses that he hand built still stand on North Michigan Road across from the old Burnside gravel pit.  An uncle, James Reeves owned a tailor shop on Public Square, above the five and ten, and another uncle was janitor and handy man for the DePrez store, also on the Square.

Inprinter, you and I must get together this summer.  I haven't heard anyone mention  the interurban.  I remember its former freight house....Is it Boggstown Road?? I know I remember the flag markers when the state proposed widening ole 421 and how much of the house they were going to take.  And there used to be a bottomless pond in the field next door that was dynamited to relieve the flood.   Finally, some of you have talked about the switch jobs pulling the grade on the southwest part of town, but no one has mentioned how that hill got there in the first place.

David Harrison

INprinter

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2011, 07:07:43 PM »
David,

Any time you are near Shelbyville let me know. My email address is available in the Members list. Just click on Members in the Menu bar at the top of this page to find it.

I have been researching local railroading and Interurban for some years now. There's so little of both these days that I'm probably the only one out there running things to ground on Shelbyville Railroading. There are several other threads on this board concerning railroading in Shelbyville. Just search "Shelbyville" and you'll probably come up with some good stuff.

Inprinter
Shelbyville-1st RR in IN: 7/4/1834. 1st RR abandoned in IN: K&S RR 1854, 26 miles. Making IN RR history. Without photons photography would be a black art. You can never get cornered in the Roundhouse.

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Re: Shelbyville - A little history disappears
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2011, 07:41:01 PM »
Thanks for the invite and for the info on other threads.  I'll certainly start researching right away.  I was surprised my post got on as a "guest."  The sever went down while I was trying to register.  But I'm official now....chicagopcclcars.....Those are the "L" cars in Chicago from the 50s to the late 90s that used PCC streetcar technology, except we didn't use air brakes.  I drove those.

David

P.S.  Anyone gonna take me up on where the hill the PRR climbed came from?? The attachment is me at the controls of a PCC car at Illinois Railway Museum. (If it goes through)