Author Topic: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?  (Read 2866 times)

510Russ

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Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« on: September 12, 2012, 08:17:18 PM »
I was just looking at Ohio Statewide Rail Plan from 2010, and I saw a proposal for an "Indianapolis Shortcut" (from Columbus, Ohio to Indianapolis) that follows the old Pennsy main line east of Indy.  In today's political climate, especially with Romney's goal to eliminate Amtrak funding, that is probably old news.  But it's interesting to think about.  See the maps in Chapter 10, pp. 12-13 of this document: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/Programs/StatewideRailPlan/Documents/Chapter%2010%20-%20Ohio%20Passenger%20Rail.pdf

-- Russ

CIOR

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 08:16:33 AM »
Keeping this non-political, but Bush eliminated funding to Amtrak and it still survived.  However I believe most understand that some support of Amtrak is needed to keep things flowing.
I think its all a pipe dream no matter what though.

Robert 96

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 09:59:19 AM »
Never happen in our lifetime. Of course it makes good sense but the United States wants nothing to do with passenger trains. The govt. will pay anything for highway construction but you can forget railroad construction. The Columbus - Indy line would be fantastic to have for regional and national service but it's gone and it would take a miracle to get it back. Just getting things past the EPA would take decades!! Then you have to get back all the land, some of which has housing ( homes, apartment buildings etc. ) already built on it. That old Pennsy line would have been a natural for high-speed rail as it was built for it. Very few grades of any consequence and very few turns of any consequence. Beautiful railroad which is already torn up in many places. The only section that wasn't top notch was from Richmond Indiana to just east of Dayton. This could have been fixed but it's already long gone. Very sad!

PRRfanatic

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 10:31:07 PM »
I think this will happen because they are already gobbling the land back up for the pensy trail. I believe Ill see it in my lifetime

torgy1962

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 12:16:50 AM »
I think this will happen because they are already gobbling the land back up for the pensy trail. I believe Ill see it in my lifetime
This line is gone....

PRRfanatic

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 12:30:52 AM »
yes i know but ive personally walked every bit of pennsy trail from indy to knightstown and even alot of it thats just woods now. I didnt say it would come back I said I believe. its people like me that make things happen. Not saying I could rebuild the route but what I mean is there are many people who would feel the same. And just the fact Lincolns funeral train took that route is something historical for Indiana to think about. This line in this day of age could easily be rebuilt. So think what you want. I think positive not negative. Ohio has the right idea now indiana should follow

MDavis

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2012, 09:41:22 PM »
yes i know but ive personally walked every bit of pennsy trail from indy to knightstown and even alot of it thats just woods now. I didnt say it would come back I said I believe. its people like me that make things happen. Not saying I could rebuild the route but what I mean is there are many people who would feel the same. And just the fact Lincolns funeral train took that route is something historical for Indiana to think about. This line in this day of age could easily be rebuilt. So think what you want. I think positive not negative. Ohio has the right idea now indiana should follow

This is a second division of the group working on the Vandalia Trail from Indy to TerreHaute. They aren't affiliated with any RR. There ARE stories of railtrails coming back, but I don't think this group is in a position for that, especially if they plug into the Indy Bikeways, although street-running would be interesting if they did it that way...
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PRRfanatic

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2012, 01:07:09 AM »
That would be cool. I still think one day someone will see the route is rebuildable

Wes Lewis

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2012, 07:27:50 PM »
That would be cool. I still think one day someone will see the route is rebuildable

I will go out on a limb here and say that although the route may be rebuildable (at enormous expense), this will never happen.  Sorry.  It's been gone 30 years now and it's not coming back. 

k9fon

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2012, 08:20:26 PM »
Its gone and done... Forget about it..... :(

MDavis

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2012, 11:23:41 PM »
Worse, its irrelevent. If CSX needed it, it would be here. If they need it, they'll build something.

They don't need it.

EDIT: but i tell you what you can do, wait a few years and get out your rubber-treded Velocipede, and you too can try to match the St. Louis passenger train from Richmond to Terre Haute. Ill wave at you if you make it to Clayton.
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scraphauler

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 03:52:40 PM »
Worse, its irrelevent. If CSX needed it, it would be here. If they need it, they'll build something.

They don't need it.

EDIT: but i tell you what you can do, wait a few years and get out your rubber-treded Velocipede, and you too can try to match the St. Louis passenger train from Richmond to Terre Haute. Ill wave at you if you make it to Clayton.

If they (or NS) needed it, would be much cheaper and easier to rebuild the I&O/CIND from Columbus to Cincinnati to Indianapolis to a "higher" speed than rebuild non existent track.  And even in passenger train fantasy land,  high speed service Indianapolis to Columbus with a Cincinnati intermediate stop would be a much more desirable operational  (to an operator trying to earn a buck)  than a direct Indianapolis - Columbus with no intermediate stop or a Dayton stop.  Yes, direct would be quicker, but if you swing down for a Dayton stop, running times could be pretty close to similar as going via Cincinnati.

RailfanJ-Ro22

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 10:18:17 PM »
If they (or NS) needed it, would be much cheaper and easier to rebuild the I&O/CIND from Columbus to Cincinnati to Indianapolis to a "higher" speed than rebuild non existent track.  And even in passenger train fantasy land,  high speed service Indianapolis to Columbus with a Cincinnati intermediate stop would be a much more desirable operational  (to an operator trying to earn a buck)  than a direct Indianapolis - Columbus with no intermediate stop or a Dayton stop.  Yes, direct would be quicker, but if you swing down for a Dayton stop, running times could be pretty close to similar as going via Cincinnati.

Using tracks that are already there would still have issues. The main one being that many people would just want to drive anyway rather than take a train that would bend all the way down to Cincy and back up. That is unless you could convince the entire public that it would be more eco-friendly buuuuut...

Also, if a passenger operation wants to avoid all the freight traffic that would slow them down, they would want to build a line from scratch, or in this case from something that may already still be there somewhat, but the Freight rr's don't use.

In all seriousness, they would probably be better off just building a brand new line along I-70. There's plenty of space and the only worry would be getting across all the highway exits.

Although I REALLY wish this would happen, the only part of the Panhandle that I see being rebuilt, is Indy to Greenfield for Indianapolis Transit.
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PRRfanatic

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 09:34:10 PM »
At least one of you isnt pesimistic. I hate poor attitudes. I understand your arguments but thats just having a closed mind. So in my eyes one day it will be rebuilt. Could be 100 years from now but who knows. One day someone with money will do it. Maybe it will be along 70 instead. Who knows, So get the NEVER word outta here. People allways gotta drop a negi bomb on peoples dreams.

indrr

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 11:13:20 PM »
Given enough money, sure, anything can happen. Look at the FEC line to Key West for an example of that.

Your comment about I-70 leads to a discussion we've never had here...what will happen when the interstates go the way of the railroads? It almost certainly will happen. Will they become highway-trails? Or will rails go back in?
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PRRfanatic

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 11:23:52 PM »
what would replace the highways? And is there more information about that key west line? Im curious now. Also sorry I did not mean to sound rude. Its just a dream of mine.

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 11:33:03 PM »
what would replace the highways? And is there more information about that key west line? Im curious now. Also sorry I did not mean to sound rude. Its just a dream of mine.
Exactly the question...interstates will become obsolete and be replaced...just with what?

Quick info on the Florida East Coast Key West extension: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Railroad
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RailfanJ-Ro22

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 11:54:53 PM »
Exactly the question...interstates will become obsolete and be replaced...just with what?

Quick info on the Florida East Coast Key West extension: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Railroad

The reason I brought up the interstate scenario is because California's already done it. They just put a high speed line down the median of an interstate a few years ago. I'm not talking about the interstates being obsolete. I'm just saying that there is so much space around a highway (I-70 in particular) that if they were to build a high speed line anywhere, it would be the most practical place. It's also a good way to get people out of their cars, and onto a train because the majority of drivers are on I-70 anyway and would see the train going by them and think, "Hey! That might be cheaper than using all this gas!"

I've always dreamed of seeing the Panhandle restored but if the idea is to get everyday people to ride the train instead of drive, (whether it be to use less gas, put out less polution, or just get there faster) I would think they would put it along the interstate. It may not be what we railfans want, but it would at least be something.
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MDavis

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2012, 01:00:34 AM »
Given enough money, sure, anything can happen. Look at the FEC line to Key West for an example of that.

Your comment about I-70 leads to a discussion we've never had here...what will happen when the interstates go the way of the railroads? It almost certainly will happen. Will they become highway-trails? Or will rails go back in?

You know, maybe I'm too "closed-minded" for this discussion, but I don't forsee flying cars being the huge future, at least, not without some kind of ground-based system to back it up. too many more variables that can go wrong when everyone becomes a pilot. I'd like to say that mass transit as a whole, plane, train, boat, what-have-you all intigrates. Something along the line of multi-modal automobiles that travel in various convoys. Its too bad Auto-Train didn't cath on, or maybe its too far ahead of its time. I'd love to be able to have my car after I travel somewhere.

Personally, I think what'll kill the interstates won't be an obsoleteness, it'll be an inability to absorb the demand. Think out it, in order for them to build two more lanes that are needed NOW, they have to take out one lane at least as a work zone. Byt the time they're done, they have three lanes open, one again and two new, but in the meantime the demand that already filled the old lane has also swelled up with the demand for the two new ones. And it'll be time to build two more lanes. I think that cycle will be the death of it. Maybe not anytime soon, but eventually...

As to the trains, I don't think they went anywhere. And maybe I'm too close-minded for this topic, but my personal favorite way to describe what happened to the railroads is that for the most part, they optimized. Cut back some, improved in othe rplaces. They're not gone though, they're doing what a good Tech Department does on Broadway: They keep the world moving, but they do it without really being seen or felt by the average person. (And for those of you who are techies, you know you sit there douring a show admiring the scene changes as much as the acting. Don't try to deny.)


he reason I brought up the interstate scenario is because California's already done it. They just put a high speed line down the median of an interstate a few years ago. I'm not talking about the interstates being obsolete. I'm just saying that there is so much space around a highway (I-70 in particular) that if they were to build a high speed line anywhere, it would be the most practical place. It's also a good way to get people out of their cars, and onto a train because the majority of drivers are on I-70 anyway and would see the train going by them and think, "Hey! That might be cheaper than using all this gas!"

I've always dreamed of seeing the Panhandle restored but if the idea is to get everyday people to ride the train instead of drive, (whether it be to use less gas, put out less polution, or just get there faster) I would think they would put it along the interstate. It may not be what we railfans want, but it would at least be something.
South Shore does it too in Chicago. Even has entire train stations in the middle.

what would replace the highways? And is there more information about that key west line? Im curious now. Also sorry I did not mean to sound rude. Its just a dream of mine.

You weren't being rude. And I'm sorry if I was too. I'm all for dreaming, a;though part of me thinks we'll se saying "Cool!" if they built it, and then be sick of seeing the same old' CSX engines we see everyday on the already existing tracks by Week 2. Watch the Kokomo evolution and see how long the awesomeness of that particular line lasts before it becomes just another branchline to railfan. We'll just agree to disagree on whether it'll actually happen, but hey, I wouldn't mind being wrong.



Sadly though, its ofthen the case that a pessemist is a realist no one wants to believe.  Or, as was heard in a cemetary somewhere: "Gee, I guess Fred was right. They really were out to get him."
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PRRfanatic

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Re: Restoration of the Pennsy Main Line East of Indy?
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2012, 03:34:08 AM »
I do understand that it most likely wont ever be rebuilt but who knows. If anything maybe sections or a section for light rail service will go from indy to greenfield. They do need it. No bus lines go there. Its sad that its 2012 and back in the day they had a better transportation service. Inter urban , Trains and buses ,but now none., In the future trains will come back due to using to many fossil fuels in cars. Way to many cars on the road. I bet back in the railroading boom days the world was alot let poluted and congested