Author Topic: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM  (Read 26042 times)

monon_rr

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2017, 10:20:09 PM »
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that the Port Authority had to maintain the ROW but instead ITM was paying for all of the maintenance out of pocket - of which there was also federal funding tied up in it.

Now if ITM was smart - and so far they have not shown this to be the case in this matter - I would think a decent lawyer could tie this whole thing up for a bit in order to get every last thing out of Noblesville...no less expose all of Hamilton Co. dirty laundry in the process.

Right now it is two sides that are just fully incompetent and the history is going to be lost and the residents/visitors are the ones that suffer.

Patrick Callahan

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2017, 10:30:04 PM »
Remember... Exposing your neighbors dirty laundry may also lead to exposing your own dirty laundry... The ITM isn't the innocent actor....

Ralph

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2017, 10:51:42 PM »
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that the Port Authority had to maintain the ROW...

Here is the entire 12 page document that allowed ITM to run on the port authority rails from 1996 to 2006. The brief statement on maintenance appears on page 3.

During the term of this agreement major work was done north of Forest Park (I've been told) but I have no details on who paid to have it done. By the time this expired in 2006 coal was gone from the line and perhaps the HHPA no longer cared about maintenance. However, the owners did not completely let it go to hell but contributed to grade crossing improvements at several locations.


CSX_CO

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2018, 07:33:38 PM »
NKP #1 for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar.

Listing says car will need to be trucked from current location. Not on live rail.

Let the garage sale begin?

BourdonBoy

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2018, 07:57:34 PM »
NKP #1 for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar.

Listing says car will need to be trucked from current location. Not on live rail.

Let the garage sale begin?
Remember, NKP1 is privately owned, not part of ITM's collection. Furthermore, one of its co-owners has chosen to sell his share of it due to declining health and other factors.

NKP1 is an important part of NKP (and, for a while, C&O) history and needs a good home if it is not possible to remain in central Indiana.

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 11:03:23 PM by BourdonBoy »

laker2555

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2018, 11:01:21 AM »
Was in Noblesville this morning and stopped by Forest Park.  Nothing much looks to be happening at ITM with the equipment yet.  Looks mostly like it did when I was by in the fall. 

Ralph

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2018, 12:07:51 PM »
Was in Noblesville this morning and stopped by Forest Park.  Nothing much looks to be happening at ITM with the equipment yet.  Looks mostly like it did when I was by in the fall.

The museum is an inhospitable place in the winter. Only Hobbs Station has a relatively efficient heating system - electric baseboard heat. If anyone wants to work elsewhere in this weather Carhartts are pretty much required.

My hope is that they are meeting somewhere warm and working on plans to move and store their artifacts in a safe place. Keep in mind that in addition to the equipment you all love they have a trove of historic documents - diagrams, maps, timetables, periodicals - that also need to be saved. In Forest Park these items received only minimal protection and were never accessible for research. In the late 90's Jerry Marlette culled what he thought most important and took them to the Indiana Historical Society where they were accepted but still stored. They might still be in a freezer to kill what might have lived on them but can not be made available unless they undergo expensive cleaning.

Can't find it currently but somewhere on the net is a "graphic novel" type presentation about "Deteriorata and Her Agents of Destruction" created with Steve Haller of the society detailing what is needed to make such collections accessible.

trainmaster53

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2018, 03:23:39 PM »
Anyone know the History of the Hobbs Depot, When it was Built and then Moved, and What Railroad Served Hobbs Indiana.

BourdonBoy

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2018, 10:39:31 PM »
It was built in the 1940's by the Nickel Plate (thanks to Hibbard for the correction) and was moved from Hobbs, Indiana (located on SR28 between Elwood and Tipton) to Forest Park in Noblesville in the mid-1970s. It was built as a replacement for Hobbs' original depot.

Hobbs is still served by LE&W successor Norfolk Southern.

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« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 11:24:26 PM by BourdonBoy »

hibbard

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2018, 11:06:41 PM »
I have two conflicting dates, 1941 and 1948.  1941 is from a newspaper clipping, which I can't find right now and 1948 is from Parker's "Indiana Railroad Depots:".  Either date would make it a Nickel Plate depot, not a LE&W.

hibbard

BourdonBoy

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2018, 11:38:27 PM »
Anyone know the History of the Hobbs Depot, When it was Built and then Moved, and What Railroad Served Hobbs Indiana.
I finally found this, to answer your questions:

http://indianarailroads.org/board/index.php?topic=1570.0


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hibbard

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2018, 09:31:30 AM »
BourdonBoy,
Thank you for the link.  However that raises additional questions, see the attachment. I found the copy of the newspaper article that I couldn't find yesterday.
hibbard

Lt._Dave

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2018, 03:56:42 PM »
So will the Hobbs Station be moved as well, or is it property of the park?

Dave

pbrankle

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2018, 12:42:09 PM »
Since the City of Noblesville announced it would not renew the lease with ITM, I have been thinking about the logistical and financial impact this causes for ITM. 

A look on-line at Google earth, shows approx. 50 pieces of equipment on the tracks in Forest Park which will have to be moved.  This count does not include any equipment which is in the barn or Singer building (NKP587, FEC90, etc.).  It also does not include MoW equipment or any of the items which are located around the museum grounds which are not on the rails (3 storage containers, old rail, an old tool car, etc.)
The ITM website lists 51 items which will have to be trucked out to a new location, sold, donated, or scrapped on-site.  The connections on both ends of the line are no longer intact, several streets in Tipton have been paved over, and a good portion of the line is now buried as property owners adjacent to the line have "reclaimed" the property and covered the tracks with dirt to extend their yards.  I have no experience with the logistics and costs associated with moving railroad or other heavy equipment by truck, but the cost of renting a crane(s) at the loading site and the unloading site, plus the cost to the trucking company is probably significant. 
Additionally, ITM is required to return the property in Forest Park to its original condition, which will include the ongoing environmental remediation costs from the issue which was announced several months ago.

On top of the process of getting everything out of Forest Park, ITM has to have a location where they can take everything.  ITM recently made an offer to purchase a rail line in Logansport for $150,000, but that doesn't allow a place to put the miscellaneous items which do not reside on the rails.  The loss of available buildings will create an additional issue which will need to be addressed.

A media release by ITM stated the recent Polar Bear Express had 14,000 riders.  Assuming each the 14,000 were paying customers ($25 each), that would be gross revenue of $350,000.  Reduce that amount by the cost to lease the equipment, costs of fuel, and any miscellaneous expenses necessary to host the event.  Take the remaining revenue and subtract the costs discussed above.....is there any money left? or does the revenue even cover all of the costs?   

The process of getting out of Forest Park will probably extend beyond the lease expiration date, but Noblesville has already indicated they would work with ITM and extend the timing as necessary.

These are just my preliminary thoughts and there are probably things I am not considering (both favorable and unfavorable to ITM).  I am curious what thoughts others may have.     

SimonTek

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2018, 11:19:04 PM »
Smartass remark:

Move it to Bedford. Buy the line from Bedford to Salem.

Dschro

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2018, 09:06:15 AM »
That's not a smart ass remark!  I've been thinking the same thing and it makes sense.  It would be a boon to the economy of every small town involved and the Monon Society already has a Museum in Salem.  If you have been along this line , you know that it is a pretty route, but no local industry of any kind.  Tourist dollars would help the local economy.

trainmaster53

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2018, 09:14:11 AM »
The Monon Historical Society would love that. Get the Bridge repaired in Bedford and have the Museum on the Northside of Bedford on the Remaining Monon Track North of Town.

CSX_CO

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2018, 09:40:06 AM »
So who’s starting the go fund me?  Should be able to make that happen with a couple million dollars...

Then they’ll be competing with French Lick Railway for tourist dollars.  And French Lick has the two resorts as draws already.

trainmaster53

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2018, 02:00:14 PM »
That is operated from Jasper to French Lick and back. Its Not Operating at this time. The Museum is Closed for the Season.

santa fe warbonnet

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Re: Noblesville Parks Board looks to evict ITM
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2018, 05:17:51 PM »
Just wondering if any news on this situation. I have no personal involvement in this issue, but hope to hear some good news about this. thanks